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Edited by PeteXN:
8/18/2022 4:16:11 PM
118
Glaives are extremely overtuned in PvP.
EDIT: [b]My haters in shambles, sandbox lead echoed all of my sentiments and changes are planned to come prior to Season 19[/b]
Since this is getting more traction I'll rewrite this OP in order to provide more constructive feedback that is less in the moment of "i am beyond frustrated by glaives"
[b]75% damage reduction in crucible is inexcusable[/b]
Problem: glaives are too powerful in PvP, despite low usage rates; currently in Trials this week glaives are sitting only above power weapons and trace rifles in usage, for quickplay the only option in the top 50 is Enigma which surprisingly sits #39 for usage accounting for 0.607% and kills tracking at 0.681%, meaning it's effective for those using it. Despite low usage, I forsee this becoming a very large problem in PvP as more players catch on, and anecdotally they have been as I'm seeing more and more glaives in Survival by the day from players who grasp at least the basics enough to be a complete menace.
Reasons:
- the personal shield of a glaive gives the player 75% damage reduction in an area greater than 180 degrees surrounding the front of the player.
- The player is capable of moving and shooting through this shield, and landing shots while shielding extends the duration of the shield. The shield will last until it is spent and incoming damage does not reduce it's duration and is instead transferred to the player.
- As evidenced here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y1VsdMXA3E) by Legole, there are extreme hard counters to glaive shields however they are incredibly limited in the sandbox to single digit options. One primary with a win condition (tarrabah) can get past it, all other normal player options are rendered useless.
- Craftable glaives are able to build into fast projectiles that can one shot a player from behind a 75% damage reduction shield (Unstoppable Force).
These sorts of conditions create ultra tank players -blam!- full offensive capabilities and who become nearly unkillable in 1v1 situations when paired with certain exotics (and more on the way) and are impossible to ignore in team based settings. Bastion overshields, bubbles, restoration and healing grenades, and especially things like Lorelay which makes damaging a glaive user in point blank range a death sentence compound these issues.
There are specific hard counters, but the problem with these are:
-the average and majority of players will not know about any of these and will be forced to deal with a glaive user at the glaive users discretion, none are communicated clearly
-we are so focused in on build crafting, and the idea that after all these years the primary solution to a problem is simply picking a different weapon to point and shoot, that a glaive disrupts all of these by forcing players to choose very specific options to deal WITH the glaive user and leaving the player at a suboptimal level to handle any other players in the match. (Divinity can kill a glaive nearly instantly but is near useless in all other situations, the only hope would be you force the glaive user to swap weapons themselves which is also an undesired outcome)
Players who are currently using glaives in their effective manner will echo my sentiment and have done so in the replies that it feels unfair and they do not want a glaive meta. While I don't see a glaive meta coming into play, I do see usage rates going up and up and up until we have enough matches with enough deadly unkillable tanks upending the flow of matches and the entire rest of the sandbox that people get really really unhappy with it.
[b]75% damage reduction in crucible is inexcusable[/b]
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I just want a stasis glaive for pve dammit.(and to work with stylish executioner void hunter aspect for pve shinagins.)
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2 RepliesI'm sure you'll get a lot of flack for posting this, but people who know how to use glaives or have played against others that know how to use them, know that they are extreeeeemely good. Fixing the hit detection on them will 100% make them op and bring about a glaive meta. Tbh though I'm all for new metas and at least it'll be different than shotguns for close range.
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40 RepliesNo, don't get glaives nerfed. They're not overturned, they're a new special weapon. They're disrupting the sandbox because of it. They're a counter to other special weapons, it isn't hard to counter glaive play. Adapt. It isn't hard, and glaives aren't overpowered. They're still super finicky and don't procc damage or shield all the time
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3 RepliesMan some high impact pulses can two tap from scout ranges and main ingredient can one tap from like 25 yards, the only reason people don't like glaives is their ease of use makes them mildly annoying even in the hands of less skilled players. This is literally just the same whinging everyone did when autos were competitive. You got popped by a blueberry, cry me a river.
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14 RepliesI have to disagree. I got maybe killed like 3-5 times at all with them since their introduction. They are not that broken or overtuned imo. You have a massive handicap for their strength (lack of melee range/melee ability blocked while holding, shield requires hits/kills with ammo, not many perks for the melee attacks, etc.)
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2 RepliesMake Anti barrier rounds go through it. Problem solved.
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1 ReplyDamage reduction should be like 25% max apart from that I find glaives not super offensive. Its nice people are using different weapons
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1 ReplyYou've awoken the glaive hivemind. They are everywhere in these comments they're defending it with their lives
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Possibly start with 2 special instead of 4. The kill potential should be balanced out with the protection potential.
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2 RepliesPeople wanted something other than HC/shotguns. We got machetes on long-@ss sticks. People STILL complain. 🤷♂️
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1 ReplyThis is very constructive and well thought, though I feel a bit differently and I will explain. My personal thought is thinking of 3v3 vs 6v6. They're fundamentally different in how they need to be played. With less people involved it gives more time to think as Trials, if you are playing competitively, can be very slow and methodical in reaching end goal. So there's all this extra processing and strategic planning that can and does happen, and I think that's probably the biggest contributor to the issue there. Strong weapons in a 3v3 scenario is not a good combination to maintain balance in a mode like Trials because these people are already PvP gods, the worst thing that can be given is an easy kill option. Naturally, it is preferred for surviving though. Crucible on the other hand is alot more intense with having 6 extra people total on the same size maps, so in the regular Crucible glaives really aren't a very viable option for most, and I honestly feel they could use some help, but just a little. I rarely see them there. They're usable for sure, you just have to really know what you're doing. I think they do need to be hard to use for most, or they would absolutely ruin PvP, but something is just slightly off, but I don't know what yet, and its frustrating😂, especially while commenting about it. There is very little time though, comparatively to process and react in Crucible with 6 extra people running around because encounters are near constant and there's that many more grenades messing up the arena, so a weapon like a glaive, that does need more strategic planning to utilize properly, becomes a lot more useless unless you are top tier skilled with it.
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3 RepliesEdited by NotCreative123: 8/15/2022 5:32:04 PMThat was a well-written post. Some ideas to nerf Glaives while maintaining their identity: You can't move while shielding. The Glaive shield only triggers upon damage dealt. (I have played several games where this has glitched and activated for no reason) A player is not punished for dealing damage. (No more damage increase for shooting shield) Glaive shields take more damage from a certain elemental burn and, to a lesser extent, Kinetic weapons. Reduce reticle movement speed to half while shielding (slower to track targets). Reduce shield coverage (easier to get around) Shooting the shield results in a mild blinding effect, similar to a flashbang. Shielding consumes ammo. Shielding activates off of kills and not damage dealt. The glaive shield sits further away from the player, allowing normal damage to be dealt within a certain radius. (Shield sits at 4m, and within 4m, you deal 100% damage. Outside of 4m, you deal 25% damage) Shielding time is greatly reduced.
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1 ReplyDon’t worry man. The minute usage rates go up bungie will quickly nerf them. Currently they are just a selling point to the Witch Queen, but the mass hasn’t figured out the godlike utility glaives have currently.
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2 RepliesAs a person who mains a glave in PvP, I can relate to what u r saying. With a new archetype in the sandbox, it’s hard to counter against it for a while and feel like nothing you do matters. BUT there are viable counters to glaves like other people said. The main 2 that glaves don’t work well against (at least for ME) are mobility (running away, jump up and move around to disorientate the glave user, etc) and witherhoard. Div CAN work (in team settings) but who ever I fight with never uses it. Stasis can work BIG time. Maybe one of your teammates can run stasis with cold snap to stop the glave user in his tracks. As of now, I have seen more and more people using glaves (especially in rumble). It’s always a treat to see another glave user (since they r rare to find overall). Most of the time, I usually beat them with my own glave but there r some exceptional players that are better than me (though again, they r few and far between). I really don’t think they need to b nerfed. While yes the shield can be oppressive, that is literally the only thing that makes it viable. Nerf that, and you will have to confiscate it’s lost damage reduction somewhere else (faster RPM, decrease the melee animation time, etc). Otherwise, NO ONE (in PvP) will use it since it’s a slow firing/melee weapons with a decent perk that can be nerfed as well at anytime. Just my 2 cents but take it as u will. :)
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1 ReplyEdited by JazzyPaladin477: 8/15/2022 1:01:55 PMArmor piercing rounds should go through them, would give them a purpose beside chewing down titan barricades faster.
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2 RepliesI think the 75% DMG reduction is a bit strong given the duration you get per hit in PvP. But granted I also think bow DMG is a wee bit high (but very close to where it should be). I think it’s real problems are with all the other healing, overshields and defensive tools that go with it, which hopefully get addressed at some point (read: don’t get your hopes up). I think they are moderately overtuned (duration per shot wise in PvP) and a skilled player makes even a moderately overtuned weapon feel oppressive against someone who is less skilled against an unfamiliar weapon.
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23 RepliesAny mechanic with as many hard counters as the Glaive shield shouldn't be nerfed. Like, unironically, it's a skill issue at this point.
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5 RepliesKeep your nerf talk to yourself, it gives Bungie ideas. Personally all I want next season is a craft able stasis glaive, in the top slot. Since you're peeing in my Cheerios gotta say it. It'll be OK. Take a deep breath. Go for a walk. All better options than screaming for a nerf after a match (you admitted it).
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4 RepliesEdited by WorldFaII: 8/13/2022 3:59:17 PMNo. They’re. Not.
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8 RepliesImagine complaining about a Glaives being too strong.
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4 RepliesI love how we’ve come full circle with glaives. Last season everyone was saying their trash and have no place in the game, but now even after losing suppress people are calling for a nerf. Lmao
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3 RepliesDistance and strategy maybe?
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4 RepliesI think they’re fine.
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3 RepliesGlaive main here. Use witherhoard.
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2 Replies"And the survey says" Dude you've been smoking the wrong weed! For all three people that run with glaives in PvP - let them be. Ten bucks says I can run PvP all weekend (never have nor would since the death of D1) and never see a glaive being played. HOWEVER, a non HC, sniper, shotty, fusion meta sounds like a lot of fun to me. Bring on the apocalypse!
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6 RepliesJesus how bout one -blam!- season where we don't nerf shot because of pvp or because you got to put in a little effort to counter it come on now.
