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5/9/2022 10:33:37 PM
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Matchmaking in PvP: what is actually the process?
Just completed a match where myself and 5 other ransoms were matched against 2 Fireteams of 3. It would make more sense to match the two fireteams against each other and add 3 ransoms to each. Thus, what exactly is the criteria used for matchmaking?
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Bungie admitted in two twabs about 7 months ago that match making only cares about connection. It doesn't care your K.D., trueskill, flawlesses, time spent playing etc. Doesn't care. It matches people based on "good connections to eachother". There is two reasons this happened. 1) Streamers specifically cried and cried for so long to get rid of SBMM. None of them had good reasons cause there real reason is just that they wanted to go against newbs again so they look better in their streams and videos. They wanted to pub stomp. Bungie tweeted admitting by removing SBMM that they made a mistake, they listened to the minority and ignored the majority, and that they are sorry. 2) A very very very small amount of normal players cried about laggy players everyday. Theoretically you should run into less laggy players, and laggy players should be in laggy player lobbies. I remember back in D1 I was rather new to the game. I went to play with a friend and the lobby was all flawless emblems and scarabs on every single player, literally. It was all flawless trials emblems. I said to him I never seen such a thing in my life and he said "all my lobbies are like this". I thought that was pretty cool that he was a really really good player and Bungie only matched him against top % players. It made it fair for me. And he didn't mind cause to him he was just playing others like him. Bungie needs to bring back Skill Based Matchmaking. You can't just tweet admitting you listened to miniority and was wrong THEN HAVE NO PLANS TO FIX IT.
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Their matchmaking is combination of random number generators, GOTO commands, and voodoo magic.
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Edited by ΞsnΛχΞ: 5/12/2022 3:00:36 PMIt’s like the slot machines in Vegas, bro. They’ll give you enough to keep going but they’ll F you over in the end every time.
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Turn your speakers/tv down and turn up the settings in the destiny options, find the happy balance lol
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4 RepliesEdited by TheCyo: 5/10/2022 1:29:20 PMEvery game out there (except Destiny) matches premade teams vs premade teams. So if you have a prestack of three, the matchmaker actively searches the queues for a premade of comparable size and skill and starts building the match roster. That's why for most games, premades are not really that of a problem. If you run as a stack of 6 you have longer queue times, because the matchmaker will try to find a 5er or 6er stack and match you. The games are still fair. But in Destiny even two moderately skilled pvp players grouping up can just game the matchmaker and have mostly easy games. Now the devs at Bungie are not able to implement this even if this is standard for years in every other game. They even have to resort to introducing freelance queues to somewhat make fair games for solos possible. And this is of course worse than the above described method every other game implements, because it splits the playerbase into two separate queues which will lead to longer queue times for everyone. As a software developer myself, I'm just baffled why Bungie is simply not able to make a coherent matchmaker for this game. The only reason I can come up with, that is not solely based on dev incompetence, is the friendship bonus Bungie seems to like to dish out to players grouping up (in pve and pvp)
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12 RepliesEdited by Ghillieghost: 5/10/2022 4:09:34 AMStep 1: Bad algorithm Step 2: Bad servers Step 3: Randomly generate match of teams, parameters of always all exceptional players vs. always non exceptional players. Step 4: Find game in progress. Step 5: Place player in game with 4 seconds left, already losing. Step 6: Implement all possible scenarios to force loss. Step 7: Re-evaluete steps to be sure joy is not possible. Step 8: DO NOT TEST!!!! Step 9: Call "competitive".
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1 Reply-It picks largest stack with highest overall skill -it fills rest with complete randoms with lowest skill -you play and lose -repeat -after 5-7 losses in a row it puts you with stack to win your game -go back to beginning -if at anytime you win more than 1 game every 5-7 it will put you in a bracket to lose 7-9 games in a row. Many will be over within 15 sec upon entry
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I bet its based on some analytics to keep up the player count. Like Google ads, based on tour browsing history. As soon as you get a losing streak, you are out in matches where you win. If you win a lot, you are put back in the meat grinder. This algorithm will be cheaper than proper matchmaking like sbmm. As you just treat players in limited number of personas. It's just limited number of players and not really a major ecommerce website.
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Edited by Rainstater: 5/11/2022 3:59:37 PMFrom what I know MM is connection based but lobby balance is win % for a 50/50 win loss average. The assumption I would assume is people want to win games so they aim for a 50/50 win ratio. People also don’t want laggy connections and long wait times hence connection based over skill. I do remember when their system used SBMM and I as a slightly above average player had really long cue times and every game was a sweet fest. I would prefer they do a mix of the two. Connection based to fill the lobby and then skill based to form the teams. No more of this 50/50 win average.
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2 RepliesI only know a part of it, goes like this for me: - Losing 5 matches on a streak - Winning 1 match at last!! - We are breaking teams... 🙄 - Losing matches streak begins...
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Edited by Roach: 5/11/2022 11:13:51 AMIts all about keeping the high K/D players happy. They are the only ones who actually put the time into Crucible and Trials so they are Bungie's focus. Its better to some have players really happy than try to keep everyone happy which is not going to happen. Played both Freelance and non Freelance Iron Banner this morning, maybe 20 games, and its always the same format. The best six players against the worst. Then, after you get stomped they break up the teams for .. *sniggers* .. "a better match" .. and rinse and repeat. Took a picture on my phone this morning of a particularly unfair stomp I was on the receiving end of, K/D's of the winning team from the top .. 5.25,4.75,3.4,16.0,4.0,9.0 and now my team .. 0.83,0.56,0.5,0.25,0.3,0.0 Now tell me that's not deliberate. This was followed by a game where the roster showed three players all in the 1530's, all on one team as I predicted to my mate sat next to me. My team. Whoever is responsible for this matchmaking should be taken into their bosses office, sat down, and given the one way interview of their lives because this is just broken and done on purpose. Like Pinnacles mostly dropping in the highest power slot to slow progression.
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From various pieces of information shared across the years of D1 and D2, and thus subject to change, the TL;DR: of it all is, as far as we have been told, as follows. 1. Matchmaking is based primarily on connection. There may or may not be a hint of skill sprinkled on top. 2. Once a requisite number of players have been gathered (let's say 12), the people are put into teams based on things such as overall winning %. 3. The system is explicitly designed to put the average player at a 50/50 W/L split. 4. The easiest way of getting to a 50/50 split is to have blowouts; you blow a team out of the water, then get blown out yourself. 5. This can be seen in W/L probabilities provided by, for example, Destinytracker. 6. People complain.
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I win a match solo in normal iron banner against a 6 stack and then the next game am out in is completely out of reach to win and I proceed to get killed by supers and heavy till it gets mercy.. I have over 400,000 pvp kills and my longest winning streak is 9.. Then you get scrubs who say get gud with 50+ win streak and am thinking your only time playing is with a full fire team. Go solo in normal ib and lets see how you do.
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2 RepliesEdited by Demon_XXVII: 5/11/2022 2:50:11 AM[b]The Process [/b] Find 12 players Put the worst 5 with Player [b]A[/b] (your team) & all the Flawless/Unbroken/4.0Kd/ShotgunWankers on the other team (B) Increase team [b]B’s[/b] tic rate & accuracy Decrease team [b]A’s[/b] RNG & change all pinnacle drops to field prep & class items Add lag, ping & a random physics anomalies (Speaking of Anomaly, that’s the map you’ll play 7-10 times in a row) your weapons/build fails & mysteriously your best gear fails Spending silver & streaming on Twitch buffs chance of win Check oven….yes, half baked! 😄
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1 ReplyIf you have a really good match then you are entitled to have a horrible match next game.
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Do you remember the episode of south park, where they cut a chickens head and where the body falls, that is what they will do with the economy of U.S.A.? That is how the matchmaking on pvp works...just random BS.
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First people ready to go. The way it should be.
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Silly guardian, you know Bungo has no system in place. Its funny you actually believed someone there designed pvp with some functional system in mind
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6 RepliesI had a match in Survival yesterday that tells you a lot about matchmaking. I’m a bottom 21% player according to Destiny Tracker. I was at the top of the leaderboard on my team with 14 kills and a 2.0 kd. The other team’s top dude was a top 5% player. We lost of course. The lowest ranking dude (0.6 kd) on my team had the Unbroken seal, which I’m trying to get. How’s that for irony?
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There is no process. There is no matchmaking. First come, first serve... With a slight(very slight) preference for location.
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In terms of fireteams vs solos, nothing.
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Bold of you to assume there's a process
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5 RepliesThe process is to put you into matches that are headaches. And I don’t mean simply getting outplayed by better players. Idk who made the algorithm to MM but putting 5 thumbless bots on the same team should never be a thing. I’d rather wait longer Q times for a decent match than to just get thrown into matches where my whole team is getting bullied.
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1 ReplyEdited by tonycawley: 5/10/2022 4:03:42 PMChoose 12 players at random (it's meant to be based on connection but clearly isn't). Divide those 12 players like this... Team 1 The best player in the lobby The 5 worst players in the lobby Team 2 Everyone else Honestly, it's awful. Why it doesn't match like sized fireteams together, I don't know...
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BungIe: Hang on let me just roll the dice so I can give you an answer. 🎲
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[quote]Just completed a match where myself and 5 other ransoms were matched against 2 Fireteams of 3. It would make more sense to match the two fireteams against each other and add 3 ransoms to each. Thus, what exactly is the criteria used for matchmaking?[/quote] I’m sorry my dude. I’ve been complaining about this very thing since D1. It’ll never change. Bungo just doesn’t give a flying F about fixing matchmaking. They’ll just create freelance to makeup for it.
