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3/15/2022 11:54:43 AM
26
The Lucent Hive Aren't Really The Enemy
Consider for a moment. You're fresh from the grave as they say. No memory of who you are, of what you are. Who do you listen to? Your Ghost.
The Lucent Hive, they're not resurrected with their memories or hatred of Humanity intact. They no longer have worms to feed, worms to direct them. So who tells them how to be Hive? Other Hive, who are still listening to their worms, who still hate Humanity. Who tells them to seek out other Hive? Their Ghosts.
It began with Savathun. She was dead. DEAD dead. Her Ghost, Immaru, found her corpse, basically on the outskirts of the Last City. Immaru brought her back. IMMARU directed her away from the Last City, away from the Traveler, away from Guardians. Savathun could have been a bridge between the two species, humanity and the Hive. She had no memories of who she was, no memories of her schemes, her plans. She didn't even know her name. Immaru had other ideas...
Why?
Because Immaru is a bitter little -blam!- who was resentful over how long he spent looking for a Guardian. He basically said, "To hell with humanity," and set the entire story in motion.
From that one choice, everything else is derived. Other Ghosts turning to the Hive. The Hive proper continuing Savathun's plans from when she was alive to take the Light. Hell, Savathun said it herself, how it would have been so clever of the Traveler to just let her die; it would have been far more clever to send her a Ghost that would have made her an ally of humanity, as was done with Uldren Sov. Instead, she got Immaru.
Wait and see. Immaru will be back, probably as a Disciple of the Witness, but definitely as some sort of big bad. He'll be some sort of "uber" Ghost, larger, able to resurrect the entire arena at once in whatever event we face him in. His DPS phase will probably be when his shell is open as he's standing by to resurrect all the enemies the fireteam just killed.
Savathun had schemes, but in the end, she was just a tool for her Ghost.
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I tried arguing this with someone and they thought I was crazy 💀
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7 Replies<Savathun is actually to blame. She made sure her Risen self would know, would learn. She killed any chance her new form had at being redeemable for her actions. And subsequently, the Hive Lightbearers that rise in her name are also at fault. If a Hive Risen comes out of the woodwork against Savathun and Xivu Arath, I'll welcome them with open arms. But the Lucent Brood, and Savathun thanks to her past self, have breached the point of no return.>
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In a way you’re right. At the same time it’s pretty clear Savathun was cool with not joining together and wanted a total control and protection over the traveler. I would’ve preferred we got a ninth mission somewhere in the beginning that was Finch [b]and[/b] a Rebellious Hive Light bearer. That would’ve been far more interesting to me. Immaru and Toland also should’ve been way more involved in this expansion than they were, which is not at all. Lastly I would’ve liked one cutscene with fake Osiris. The scene where Savathun is dying in front of the Traveler is a great scene but I wish we got a creepy scene with SavaOsiris standing in front of the speakers mask reading what he had told Ghaul.
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Edited by TheArtist: 3/18/2022 7:21:34 PMYes they are. The issue is that the conflict between between Light and Dark is NOT a conflict between Good and Evil. Its just that the Vanguard conveniently forgot that being "Good" was not one of the selection criteria for being granted the Light by The Traveler. The Vanguard and the notion of a Guardian were CREATED by Saladin and the other Iron Lords by PRUNING the ranks of The Risen of the various Warlords and others who used their abilities to exploit others. The ranks are maintained by The Shadows of Yor and The Praxic Order culling the ranks of those who fall to evil. Now we seem to being seeing a similar process taking place among the Hive. Where, once again, Light is being used for evil, selfish goals....and must be pruned. Immaru may be a Ghost....but he is being with an ugly soul. The Hive are not victims. Every time they are given a chance to forge a new path, they turn to Evil. They willingly sold their souls to the Darkness. They are willingly choosing to do evil with the Light. They might not have started out as monsters....but they have BECOME monsters by what they have chosen to become.
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Edited by Morbius Sin: 3/15/2022 2:32:50 PMYou have assumed much about Immaru's influence over Savathun. As Fynch & other Ghost's stories have confirmed,there are a lot of Ghost's without 'Light partners',some have been searching for centuries,some Ghost's like Immaru obviously get emotionally deeply affected by this lack of 'coupling' & would likely be at breaking point,where they would consider to do anything or be with anything to solve this 'incompleteness'! Added to my belief,once you ignore the 'List of Requirements' that is thought to be needed to be a Light Bearer & instead look to what i think is the simple truth,that all that is required is a Ghost to willingly choose to 'Rise' an entity to be a Light Bearer,whist most Ghost seem to have a 'Code of Conduct' of who or what they 'Rise',there are many examples of not so moral Ghosts. Savathun being smarter than any Guardian,would of realised this about the Ghosts during her time as Osiris,all she needed to do was find a disgruntled Ghost,desperate or bitter enough to willingly 'Rise' her,Immaru was perfect,here was a Ghost who thinks himself a superior Ghost,looking for a superior Light Bearer but bitter & twisted after centuries of vainly searching & then he gets offered to be a Hive God's Ghost,i bet he was more than willing to 'Rise' Savathun when she would require it but not only was he a willing Ghost for her but he was/is the 'leader' of a band of wayward Ghost's,including Fynch. Having her memories intact (another thing she would of learned what happens to most Light Bearers) would of course be of vital importance to Savathun,what would be the point of anything she was doing,if she didn't even remember who she was,so she recorded vital memoies that together would make her 'whole' again & pre-prepared her trap to trick us into revealing those memories to her by tempting us with the Glaive! In short,Immaru is a willing tool to further Savathun's goals & Savathun will be back,ofc imo.
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5 RepliesInteresting take, but I disagree. When Immaru brought her back, her told her who she was, but it was also with the help of a Wizard, her most trusted servant apparently, that she came back to her Throne World, picked up the broken glaive we see in the beginning of the campaign, and found out that she had to trick us into giving her back her memories (lore from the three exotic glaives) All of this is likely to have been anticipated by Savathun before her death. Moreover, regarding the Ghosts, some of them became fascinated with the Books of Sorrow, which tell the story of the Hive, so it’s no surprise Immaru knew who Savathun was, and the others sided with the Hive after she got the Light. If we follow your theory, then we can say that the Ghosts are the tools of the Traveler. But Savathun followed her own plan, that involved getting the Light, so I doubt Immaru had anything to do with it. The real interesting thing is the Traveler’s motive ! Was it because it planned to give the Light to the Krill back in Fundament, or maybe just to ensure it’s survival against the Witness.
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Edited by Chucky: 3/15/2022 9:27:30 PMI thought similar ideas about the fallen when I first started my destiny journey in D1 and now bungie embrace that story direction now, whilst completely valid I think this one could go either way though. Or just have good factions and bad kinda like we have now
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1 ReplyIdk, we just shoot to whatever thing that haves a health bar
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Nope. They’d be just like guardians if they were brought to the last city. The problem is that Savathun set up a lot of things in the beginning including finding an egotistical ghost that disliked humanity. All she had to do was flatter him and tell him who she was when she was walking around as Osiris, and he’d have done basically anything for her for the chance to prove himself better than other ghosts. Immaru was then instructed to take Savathun to one of her most trusted wizards and set herself back on the path to regaining her memories. Savathun chose Immaru. Immaru was dumb, prejudiced, and sympathetic enough to be willing to resurrect a hive god in the light to simply prove himself better.
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I guess it's kind of like the warlords. If we got the Ghosts to realize what they are doing is wrong, then maybe they could convince the Hive.
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5 Replies-- GDPR: removed by user request --
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1 ReplySavathun has no love for The Witness or indeed The Darkness, so IMO we'll end up in an alliance of convenience. Got to wonder if we'll still be fighting together when Xivu Arath shows up, or if Savvys gonna dip from that fight. Or, hell, if shes just playing an extra long con to weaken us from within...
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I have to disagree. While it is debatable if Imaru is manipulating Savathun it can't be confirmed nor denied. We can Aldo be blamed as it's clear that the uncertainty Hive did not engage us until we engaged them. Hell we helped her remember who she was. I think Imaru is smart. Just not that smart But I agree they aren't the enemy. We have a common enemy and we're killing eachother over the Light. Savathun ordered her forces to harvest Light to combat Xivu on the moon. Xivu is a Lieutenant of the Witness, if not then an aspiring ally of Darkness. It's clear the Worms worship it.
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I have to disagree. While it is debatable if Imaru is manipulating Savathun it can't be confirmed nor denied. We can Aldo be blamed as it's clear that the uncertainty Hive did not engage us until we engaged them. Hell we helped her remember who she was. I think Imaru is smart. Just not that smart. But I agree they aren't the enemy.
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10 RepliesNah, they kill guardians and steal their light. They are the enemy
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“Well, there goes the next dlc. Back to the drawing board boys.” -Bungie-
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7 Repliesif this was true, why would the traveler go to her throne world? also savathun talked TO the traveler when she was dying. also, the traveler controls ghosts. entirely. which is a weird place, because the traveler could have killed savathuns ghost anytime it wanted when savathun was killing guardians, the traveler could have killed pur ghost when we were stopping savathun. at this point tha traveler is letting everything happen, when it can actually do stuff if it wanted
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1 ReplyAnd we are not the hero
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Bungie is the enemy.
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Inb4 immaru finds a ghost for MR big bad floating around saturn. The taco king.
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< redacted > [i]UVXX.IV[/i]
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Nah... if it walks like a duck and quack likes a duck then.... Whenever I look through my scope, all I see is an enemy. - Unknown Soldier
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Duh, if crow can be hood, so can they it's just Savathûn already made them evil
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4 Replies[quote]Consider for a moment. You're fresh from the grave as they say. No memory of who you are, of what you are. Who do you listen to? Your Ghost. The Lucent Hive, they're not resurrected with their memories or hatred of Humanity intact. They no longer have worms to feed, worms to direct them. So who tells them how to be Hive? Other Hive, who are still listening to their worms, who still hate Humanity. Who tells them to seek out other Hive? Their Ghosts. It began with Savathun. She was dead. DEAD dead. Her Ghost, Immaru, found her corpse, basically on the outskirts of the Last City. Immaru brought her back. IMMARU directed her away from the Last City, away from the Traveler, away from Guardians. Savathun could have been a bridge between the two species, humanity and the Hive. She had no memories of who she was, no memories of her schemes, her plans. She didn't even know her name. Immaru had other ideas... Why? Because Immaru is a bitter little -blam!- who was resentful over how long he spent looking for a Guardian. He basically said, "To hell with humanity," and set the entire story in motion. From that one choice, everything else is derived. Other Ghosts turning to the Hive. The Hive proper continuing Savathun's plans from when she was alive to take the Light. Hell, Savathun said it herself, how it would have been so clever of the Traveler to just let her die; it would have been far more clever to send her a Ghost that would have made her an ally of humanity, as was done with Uldren Sov. Instead, she got Immaru. Wait and see. Immaru will be back, probably as a Disciple of the Witness, but definitely as some sort of big bad. He'll be some sort of "uber" Ghost, larger, able to resurrect the entire arena at once in whatever event we face him in. His DPS phase will probably be when his shell is open as he's standing by to resurrect all the enemies the fireteam just killed. Savathun had schemes, but in the end, she was just a tool for her Ghost.[/quote] Just because they have the light that doesn’t make them good, Savathun was resurrected with no memories and defaulted to being evil and killing guardians. As well good is subjective in this situation since being good means saving humans and not killing them for the hive its the other way around
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7 RepliesIn the end I think it's wild no one talks about how Osiris is actually dead and we have another husk.
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3 RepliesSavathun isn’t dead though
