I'm against it because I've seen--first hand----that it simply doesn't work, and its a set-up for failure. The Division 1 used to have random matchmaking for all content. Including their top level PVE content----incursions. Incursions were essentially the same level of difficutly as Master level Dungeon in Destiny. IOW, the content is very difficult, the enemies hit very hard....and you have basically NO chance of getting through the content without a clearly defined strategy and communication between players. (Unlike dungeons, this content was NOT designed to be soloed) So the failure rate among randomly MM teams for these Incursions was essentially 100%. Which resulted in two major game-breaking reactions by the community. 1. The game has a MASSIVE cheating/glitching/exploit problem as people found ways to BREAK the game to get what they wanted from it, since they couldn't get it playing legitimately....and content creators were leading the charge in spreading info on how to do it. 2. The MM experience became an INCREDIBLY toxic environment. One that makes Destiny LFG look like a blissfully happy marriage by comparison. a. People started gaming the MM system. Whoever was team leader would start surveying people's loadouts and Item levels in a (misguided) effort to try to find the best possible team to run the content with. So you were constantly getting kicked from teams right as you spawned in....or even before you spawned in. So you could have to keep entering MM 10 or 12 times before finally finding a team that you'd stick with. b. Because of random MM people had NO investment whatsoever in the success of the team. So the first time there was a team wipe, people would quit out....and since there was way to backfill the team once the content was running, you were forced to either try to complete it short-handed (not) or quit, and start all over again. Going right back to the dysfunctional MM process. c. Worst still (I really don't know what Massive was thinking when they did this), once you killed the final boss and got the loot drops.....THEN you could kick people from the team, and then invite other people in. So this INCREDIBLY toxic fad started where people---if they managed to complete the Incursion with randos----woudl KICK one or more of the players from the fireteam....then invite their friends into the instance to pick up the loot for themselves. There was no "postmaster" in The Division 1....so if you got booted from an instance before you managed to pick it up...the loot was GONE FOREVER. The team leader has basically stolen it from you, and is free to give it to whomever they want. Massive eventually had to DISABLE the "kick from team" function after boss fights to finally put a stop to that -blam!-. In short, it random matchmaking for difficult end-game content was SUCH a disaster that Massive removed it from the game for The Division 2 and their 8-man raids. If you want to run it...then you need to bring your own fireteam. They had seen what happens, and they just werent' going to waste limited development resources on a situation that is a set-up for failure, and largely did nothing but ruin people's experience of hte game. I'm all for Bungie building in-game LFG and other social tools in the game. But random MM for high level nighfalls and raids? [i]Never. [/i]

To go further, the OP, Hate N Payne, has had (per Raid.Report): - a 33% success ratio in completing Vault of Glass. (2 clears, 4 red dots) - a 50% success ratio in completing Deep Stone Crypt. (3 clears, 3 red dots) - a 0% success ratio in completing Garden of Salvation. (0 clears, 2 red dots) - a 50% success ratio in completing Last Wish. (1 clear, 1 red dot) With these numbers, please explain to all of us how throwing yourself into a raid with people who may or may not know what they're doing, may or may not have the appropriate gear to complete the encounters, may or may not even be using a headset or speak your language, and may or may not have hidden time constraints that will come up later in the raid would increase your chance of succeeding in Destiny 2 raids, when right now, you're best odds with people who you've had the opportunity to vet beforehand has been 50% or less. Your own statistics PROVE mathematically, and rationally, why matchmade raids would not work. You can't even make pre-made raids work yet. This isn't some kind of elitist hate, it's just statistical data (proven by your own raid.report) and common sense!

Toxic elitists think they're special for being good at a video game.

Started a new topic: For forums(4 Replies))

Toxic entitled gate keeping kids that think they’re special if they have a gun you don’t

I like a having all options for matchmaking. No limits for anything in game or out

Dont listen to the toxic nonsense all the common excuses used by people against MM are easly dismissed with a little common sense tbh there isn't any real excuse other then bungie refusing to address the issue and design activities better for players across the board when bungie decide to do somthing about it you wont see players saying all the bs excuses anymore you would simply choose to use MM or not its really that simple

I completely agree. I have NEVER done a dungeon or a raid because of this. I dont have friends that play D2 and I’m terrible at keeping up with friends online so most end up deleting me because i dont always play with them. Only thing i hate about destiny

Because everyone wants everyone else to play the same way they do. And God forbid if someone doesn't know how to complete the task. This game is chalk full of salty nasty people, who just want to be a holes.

Because the people who oppose this are generally toxic and arrogant and want to feel special.

Not against the option, but the probability of success of completing a full raid with 5 other randoms is slim to none. At the first sign of struggle or after a wipe, players will leave and I doubt Bungie will allow already on going lobbies that aren't full to be filled with new queuing players. This is one of the reasons why activities that are matchmade with 6 players do not have wipe mechanics. Wipe mechanics are discouraging among a group of 6 randoms, and the chance that failure is an option is why they don't get implemented into the 6-man matchmade activities. Take Reckoning for example, it was a 4-man matchmade activity, but what was unique about it was that you could fail anew and not make any progress. Whenever you failed one bridge run, someone was likely going to leave making it more difficult to run the next attempt until someone else joined. This would be no different for a matchmade raid group. As I've said above, I'm not against it but the likelihood to fail multiple times and get nowhere is very discouraging which could leave to that option being entirely pointless to implement.

Why? Because all it'll do is change the problem. This is exactly what happened with trials, and people still complain about the matchmaking today. If you add the matchmaking, which I don't think anyone really cares about, people WILL complain whenever they get matched with someone who isn't good or causes them to fail a GM or something. People are gonna whine regardless, so what's the point?

Honestly, there isn't any good reason for there not to be, apart from perhaps the effort needed to implement rigorous vetting filters to please the experienced player base in fears of meeting trolls/underleveled players with blue weapons. Forgive the armchair development that's about to ensue, but in my opinion, an ideal lfg that would please everyone would likely require extensive filters like: -No. of completions -Loadout (I.e, only players with listed artefact unlocks, weapons, perks can join etc) That way, raid professionals can benefit from the system as well in which only similarly experienced players can join their group for their desired efficiency. It goes without saying that obviously, the more stringent the filters, the less likely it is to find players so a delicate line would be followed. Meanwhile, for newer players, they can join other players that are also inexperienced should they want a raw first time experience, or even an lfg group with experienced players with filters for new people that are actively seeking to Sherpa new players. To make matters more enticing for the Sherpa beyond self-satisfaction, bungie could add Sherpa incentives like more stat trackers or materials like ascendant shards, weapon crafting materials etc. That way, only people looking for each other will meet each other and everyone benefits.

I didn’t realize how much chaos would happen with a matter of opinion or a few words about a possibility or a chance. What is mind blogging to me is that it is only an opinion and some of you took it as a law being passed. What is wrong in having both system to fit EACH and INDIVIDUAL player who have the right to play this game how they desire. Most of you acted as if I was asking for cheating to be acceptable or something. So much for a positive community. FYI, no need to continue this conversation because the colors for some of you are showing drastically in the most toxic manner, however, I do appreciate any viewpoints that were shared despite the outcome of them.

I’d attempt end-game content if there was matchmaking. What a lot don’t understand is that attempting matchmade content automatically makes it casual. If nothing else it would provide an introduction to the content. If it interests you then you can LFG it. I would have never attempted Trials without matchmaking. Having said that I created 4 LFG groups last weekend and they went well even though I feel I $hit the bed in the last Shattered Realm.

Because this community is full of bullies and they don't want people to have the same experiences as them. They're just following Bungie's lead on that one though; Bungie too, doesn't want solo players to have any fun. Everything is punitive for a solo player.

It’s an odd mix of hit/miss for me. However you did state “optional”, so I will have to try and keep that in mind. For GMs, really the only thing holding it back on the mm front is the stupid champion system, and the limited revives can be abused by trolls. Otherwise I’d say go for it. Dungeons, (keep in mind I have not played the new one) I feel there isn’t really anything that hinders matchmaking in any of them. No real reason why you can’t queue up for these personally. Raids are probably the one thing that I just don’t think it would work out, though LFG is a thing, so who knows. I feel this would be the one I’d say no to. I just think some of the communication and mechanics would be a severe hinderance. This is coming from a (mostly) solo player, who cannot stand LFG bs, who has completed every raid at least once. Heck even those that communicate can’t even get simple stuff down sometimes, seen it all in my time as a raid Sherpa back in D1. To further add to it, people don’t all do the raid the exact same way. Just look at Oracle callouts on Atheon. I’ve seen plenty of different call outs for the oracles that just seem odd. If players cannot even get a uniform call out straight, it’s difficult to imagine that it would work out. Granted again optional is the key word, so I cannot say I wouldn’t attempt to use such a system, because I totally would try it. I just dunno how patient I could be after some time of players just not grasping mechanics, and believe me it is very noticeable as to who is not grasping it very quickly. For the other two, sure thing For raids, it’s going to be a very hard sell for me EDIT: why the f is “w[b]h[/b]o” being flagged for profanity? Is it because of that health organization? Jeez someone needs to get their filters in order here, this is fn ridiculous now. EDIT2: so one instance in this post was, but not others in the same post? This is weird…I’ll have to fine tooth comb it now and edit this…

Here’s the thing… Some ppl derive their self-worth through any number of things. And that list includes pixels. Some ppl look at it like proof that they aren’t ‘solo’, so to speak. Kinda like single ppl that wear wedding rings. It gives an illusion of desirability Some ppl are really into the ‘git gud’ meme unironically Gatekeepers gonna gatekeep Some ppl want everyone else to experience the same ‘struggles’ they’ve had to go thru (rabbit hole is an understatement here) Some ppl think it would fracture the playerbase too much -blam!- knows? Edit: “-blam!-” is censored? Wow. Just wow

I'm against it for raids, indifferent on everything else. If the solution to make it practical is a warning label that's "warning it's gonna suck" is worth anyone at Bungie's time. Raids? I'm far against. Dungeons and legend content I won't ask for personally but I will understand the feedback that they could.

After reading the replies I’ve come to realize this forum really is where people will go to complain about anything. Elitism, gatekeeping, blah blah blah. I’m top 200 in dungeon Sherpas, and like top 40 in Whisper of the Worm carries. It has nothing to do with the bs you guys are claiming. It’s as I said in my other comment, it could very well cause more harm than good. You think 6 people who just saw matchmaking for raids and went “oh I’ll give this a try” are going to stick around for the 2+ hours it takes to learn a raid? You think 6 randomly matched people will be able to complete the raid 90% of the time? The rate for failure would likely be closer to 90% than the rate of success. I legitimately want players to try raids and dungeons, but not if it means their experience is likely going to be terrible and possibly make them not want to try raids/dungeons again. That’s not a better alternative just for the sake of having matchmaking to please the vocal minority.

Cause any experienced raider out there tell you the majority of those raids will not get completed. Every encounter will have someone leave, as not every encounter will have every piece of loot available (Unless they make it like year 1, then yea it will help matchmaking out a bit). No one uses mics in matchmaking. Cant imagine how you will communicate Oracles, Scanner deposits, queenswalk, ect. without talking. Its a mess that will take the team hours to understand. Not to mention the amount of people leaving the raid, just for some new guy to not understand whats his role to replace rhe guy that left. Lfg is a mess bit its a controlled mess. You can at least make it work. But matchmaking, that like cooking food that is already spoiled and burned