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Edited by Raging_Shockwave:
2/16/2022 10:59:53 AM
94
For the love of God, Either Remove Champions or change the Champion Mod System
TLDR at the bottom
Champions suck all the fun out all the end game content in this game. This is a game with hundreds of different weapons, abilities and builds to use and damn near 80% of the different builds you can use are made null in void because of Champions.
Champions are definition of poor enemy design. They don't add any REAL difficulty to the game. They restrict a player's loadout and are just a dps check. Wanna run a scout rifle in a master lost sector? NOPE! Can't do that because they are no champion scout rifle mods for the season. Wanna run Vex Mythoclast and a kinetic GL? Can't do that either cause the champions featured in the activity you want to run are Barrier and Overload. Another thing. Overload sidearm...why does this even exist? Who in their right mind wants to bring a sidearm into a Grandmaster Nightfall? Why can't we just use what ever weapon combos and build we want?
To anyone that says they like champions because the force you to use different weapons, I say this. The key word in that statement is "FORCE" the player shouldn't be "forced to use weapons and builds they don't want to use or are uncomfortable with in a game that hundreds of different weapons to choose from. If I want to run the same weapon combo all the time, that's my choice. If I want to switch up the weapons I use, that should be my choice.
For the argument of "champions add difficulty" no they don't. They are bullet sponges that regen health if you can't stun and kill them quickly enough. Especially overloads. Whenever Overload bow isn't active, it's such a chore to stun those goons because they constantly teleport. Also, why are there a billion overloads during the templar fight in master VoG? It's almost as if the fight was redesigned so that you wipe if you don't bake the Templar before the second wave of oracles. The new hive guardians are a good example of making the game difficult without restricting player choice. Giving the enemy supers will make you think twice about how you should approach them with your loadout-not force you to change your loadout.
Either get rid of champions COMPLETELY, or make the champions weapon slot based instead of weapon class based. For example, Overload Kinetic instead of overload sidearm or Anti barrier Energy weapons instead of anti-barrier auto rifles. I would prefer that the Champion enemy type be removed completely but if they they're gonna stay, then by changing the mods to the system I just mentioned, players won't be pigeon-holed into using some awkward loadout they wouldn't otherwise use.
TLDR: Remove champions from the game or make the champion mods dependent on the weapon slot and not weapon type ie: Overload Kinetic instead of just Overload Sidearm.
Edit: Before anyone tries to come and tell me that I'm just complaining that champions are too hard,
1) Re READ THE POST
2) I have the Conqueror and Vault of Glass seals. Both require the player to complete end game content that's filled with champions so clearly, I'm fulling capable of dealing with them.
3) If you're trying to come at me when I have the aforementioned seals and you don't have conqueror, shut your mouth because at that point you're like an obese dude telling someone with six pack abs he shouldn't be eating unhealthy food when you yourself are unhealthy. The dude with the Six Pack knows what he's doing
English
#destiny2
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8 RepliesIf anyone remembers prison of elders the first couple of weeks on solar burn?!? Skolas and his goons would 1 shot you from every angle. No champions and it was hard as -blam!-. Or omnigol on nightfall with arc burn? And you all went back to orbit after a wipe?? These were hard and challenging and fun. So we don’t need champions just the enemies to go back to d1 difficulty That is all
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1 ReplyI agree. Champions are lame.
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34 RepliesI'm in the middle about it I think it's good because without GMs would be to easy but I do think that Bungie should think about GMs and realize we can't run unstoppable sidearm or overload smg and instead have more longer ranged weapons like scouts and bows
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You can kick and scream all you want, but I’m pretty sure champs aren’t going anywhere.
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2 RepliesChampions are a way to alternate the meta so the gunplay doesn't become stale. You need to learn to adapt.
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5 RepliesDisagree. It is so boring shooting the same no skill enemies. We can predict their every move, they provide no real threat…. And if I don’t feel threatened, then I’m not having fun. I thank bungie everyday for champions and nightmares; this game would be incredibly boring and non suspenseful without them.
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13 RepliesI like them. It changes the pve meta. Everyone would be always running the same weapons for years, if they werent around and that gets stale fast.
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I don't disagree with all your points. But I wouldn't remove champions. They add a needed challenge to temper the faceroll we usually smash into enemy forces. BUT the mods need to change. Or, at the very least, I still think that exotic weapons should have mods on them. Each one. This would also add an incentive to not just use an exotic heavy which is probably 85% of people in PvE. I also think that every class or subclass should have an ability to stun champions. Give overload stun to rifts. Give unstoppable stun to barricade. Give...something to hunters? Or give solar abilities the ability to stop overload, void for unstoppable, arc for barrier. Just something to change it up.
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I absolutely understand the complaint in solo activities, the amount of overload champions zipping around legend and master lost sectors can become a nightmare. Fun Fact, did you know that most of the activities in this multiplayer game happen to have multiple players! So theoretically, if you were playing a 3 player game mode, and you had to deal with all 3 champion types you would only need to have 1 anti champion mod on. Even better, going into a six player mode, you play your cards right, you don't even need a single mod. Its like they want to emphasize teamwork in a squad focused game, who would have thought?!
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Get good
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They seem much more aggressive and teleport more often in legend and master lost sectors. To the point of ridiculousness. The only place I have an issue with their shenanigans.
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In a fireteam, one player shouldn't need to bring everything needed to disrupt champions. Being unable to handle a champion as a team does not mean that a champion is unmanageable. It's like having the whole team running the exact same double-disruptor setup and complaining that the damage output is terrible. Let them pick one disruptive trait and two weapon of their choice. You ought to be aware of this as a conqueror, it's common sense.
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I could get behind this! I could see heavy weapons stunning Unstoppable since heavy weapons do big damage. Overload would, I think, be energy weapons since the way we stun them is apparently be overcharging them with energy. I can then see kinetic as Barrier breaking since it would be like shooting a piece of metal through a sheild of energy. I know normally sheilds are tied to energy weapon types, but these sheilds are obviously different. I also imagine it as your element being based on the element of the sheild and these champions are kinetic sheilds in a way.
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3 RepliesHow is this getting so many upvotes
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Bungo's hubris says 'no'. This is one of their 'big' ideas / innovations. It WILL be forced upon players ad nauseam...it's the Bungo way.
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1 ReplyRemember prestige EoW and SoS what was the one thing everyone hated about those two raids and possible why most people didnt run them on that difficulty?
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1 ReplySimple fix: champ mods can be applied to any weapon of your choosing.
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Campions are -blam!-. All they do is limit your load out and make things stale.
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Or, a 3rd option? More Exotics with intrinsic anti-champ properties? Arby getting anti-barrier was huge IMO
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1 ReplyWhy should I even farm for the weapons that are appealing to me on a particular season if I can't even use them in harder or endgame content? Whats the point? Champions ruin PvE.
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Remember, Champ mods were designed around sunsetting as well. But yes, i agree 100 percent with you. Its one thing I hate about the lost sectors, is the overabudance need of champions. They need to be reworked, and in my opinion, should either have more health or regen, not both. And why do overload's regen anyway? I get barrier cause you can't shoot it, but personally i feel Overload should have a little more health with teleporting, not regen and teleporting
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3 RepliesGoes back to the days of eater of world's. No real hard mode, just introduced forced load out for it. Champions are the same principle.
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4 RepliesChampions are fine (except overloads not stunning properly) but I would like more freedom with how to deal with them. I don’t like having certain weapons to deal with them every season. It’s annoying to use be forced to use certain things. Like anti barrier auto or smg. Sometimes it’s basically suicide to go near champions so I don’t want an anti barrier that requires continued fire.
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Would really enjoy having it be slot specific or doubling the weapons capable of stunning
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Edited by nusho: 2/15/2022 11:55:15 PMChampions are Bungie's answer to a problem they don't have the intelligence, creativity, ability or will to solve otherwise. It takes some serious development chops to build a system of combat that is both challenging and fair at the same time. The answer to this for any lazy developer is the dreaded bullet sponge. Bungie only brought it one step further by adding a lock and key system to said sponges, when what they should do instead is get rid of the simple-stupid lock system all together, and create a system with a multitude of dynamic challenges able to be met with an equal or higher number of possible answers. There should be all sorts of challenging enemies in this game that can be beaten by multiple differing methods, not pigeon-holing players into all using the same boring builds and weapons entire seasons at a time. And these enemies could be rotated into different end-game content to keep it fresh. Each week you'll have a different GM, but you never know which enemy might be in which portion of it, but what you do know is that you can handle it with any class or any weapon, as long as the DPS and team work is there. Here are just a few ideas off the top of my head, and I didn't even have to think about this for very long. Literally sat here for a couple of minutes: Idea #1: Make champion level enemies with weak points that have to be struck repeatedly to make them go enraged, and once enraged, they both deal and take increased damage. Any weapon type will do to enrage them. Idea #2: Champion level enemies that have heavy armor, and use a charge mechanic, where they lock onto the first player to engage them and repeatedly charge at them in an attempt to do damage. Once the enemy reaches the point where the player just was and stops charging, they take a second to cool their armor off by venting heat, and you shoot the vents to deal damage for the couple of seconds they're immobile. Might take a few charges, but you can eventually defeat this champion. Idea #3: Champion level enemies that are like hunters, and are invisible. They skulk around open areas in a GM or a raid waiting for players to aggro them. Once aggroed, they do insane burst damage, but also take damage very quickly. So the idea is to aggro them with a Titan that can bubble, or a Warlock with well or rift, or a Hunter that can go invisible, and then just DPS them down very quickly before they can lock onto anyone else. If you don't do it properly, they'll rampage through your entire group in seconds. This is just off the top of my head. I could come up with dozens of other ideas for difficult enemies that Bungie could implement into their end game content that wouldn't require specific weapons and mods to defeat them. Because we all know how fun it is for three people to all stand in one spot and repeatedly shoot an enemy with the exact same weapon, over and over and over and over again for a solid minute straight until they're dead. Such hard. Much difficult. Smfh.. The most difficult thing about Bungie's end-game is the fact that it's bugged and the enemies don't stay stunned when you stun them. Or they come back to life after you've killed them two or three times already. Or their health goes back up if you damage them too quickly. It's laziness and piss poor spaghetti code and Bungie knows it. They can barely manage to balance the game as it is, so imagine how dumbfounded they'd be if they had to troubleshoot a multitude of different enemy types that don't just stand there and take damage when you stun them?
