Mara Sov and Savathun. Two liars. Two Queens with God tier ambitions. Two women with one philosophy: valuing secrets and unique power above all else. Only these two have bargained with the great Ahamkara, Riven, and won. Parallel characters? Or one character with two faces? Perhaps Riven lost twice to the same person.
Despite sharing many similarities with the Witch Queen, I doubt Mara Sov has been Savathun since birth. As a teenager Mara worked aboard the Yang Liwei, a spacecraft shepherding the crew of the Amrita project out of the Solar system. Her duties aboard this spaceship were to report to the site of a problem, assess it, and then pass it off to another for repairs. Instead of passing the task off, Mara concocted a scheme whereby she would repair the problem herself and then disappear. Others would observe that where there was trouble, Mara Sov would appear, and then “magically” said trouble would vanish. Combined with the infamy garnered by her black market “death in the void erotica” self-captures, Mara cultivated a reputation among the crew as a minor “Divinity.” (Source: Marasenna) People left offerings and gifts for her as if she were a deity. Savathun’s childhood (Sathona at the time) was undeniably darker than Mara’s but shares key parallels. At two years old, Sathona and her two sisters Xiro (later Xivu Arath) and Aurash (later Auryx; then Oryx), survived a coup that saw their father, king of Osmium court, slain. As the three sisters escaped slaughter, Sathona wrested from her father’s grip his familiar, a dead white worm presumed to be the remains of either an ahamkara, or a dead dark ahamkara (Worm God?) larvae. Over the course of their 2-year crusade for revenge, Sathona secretly conversed with her familiar and used its wisdom to guide the trio with uncanny success that led Aurash to declare that “Sathona had never been wrong.” (Source: Books of Sorrow: VI Sisters). She kept the source of her prescience a secret from her siblings. The precocious Sathona naturally coveted secret knowledge for she knew the power it would bring. As Mara used trickery to obtain higher status than her crewmates, Sathona did the same to establish superiority over her siblings.
During the Collapse, the Yang Liwei came into direct contact with an entity of Darkness. This entity could easily have destroyed the ship and killed its inhabitants. Instead, it “tasted” them as if it was searching for something or someone (Source: Marasenna - Cosmogyre III). Shortly thereafter Mara (followed closely by Uldren) exited the ship. In the distance, a tiny light appeared like a beacon swallowed by the surrounding Darkness. Mara kicked off on a line of tether into the singularity. She wanted to be the first to pass the threshold; to be the first Awoken. This is where I think she ceased to be a precocious teenager and became Savathun.
According to the words of the Marasenna, the first Awoken was the one who got to define the parameters of the Universe within the singularity - a microverse named the Distributary. Are we to believe that because she was first to pass through the event horizon, Mara just suddenly became God of this new world with the power to design it as she saw fit? Uldren was right behind her, and what did he get? Nada. Being first is a somewhat frivolous explanation for God hood. I feel that an alternative explanation is more likely:
1.) No respite was given to the Awoken by the Darkness. The Darkness comes to destroy Sol but is merciful to the crew of the Lang Yiwei? Sounds sketchy.
2.) I believe it was Savathun that beckoned Mara into the singularity. Savathun chose her because Mara was a most fitting host. Prior to Mara’s awakening, Savathun inhabited Mara’s body just as Osiris was inhabited. The difference is that Mara’s natural behaviors are in such natural accordance with those of Savathun that there is no need for her to be suppressed. Savathun and Mara are extremely, seamlessly compatible. Mara effortlessly satiates Savathun’s worm with deception and death.
3.) I’m not basing this purely on conjecture: in Truth to Power (Source: Thank You), Savathun describes her need for a murder battery. Her idea was that by providing sustenance for her worm near a singularity, relativistic effects would spare her the burdensome task of constantly satisfying her worm. How coincidental then, that Mara Sov is the cause of virtually all the deception and ALL the wars in the Distributary, a world inside a singularity.
4.) It is said that 1000 years passes in Sol in the time that it takes a person to blink in the Distributary. Mara Sov’s limitless treachery would have provided billions of years’ worth of sustenance for Savathun’s worm.
5.) When Savathun’s worm realized that it was being tricked, Savathun had to abandon her plan, and conveniently Mara Sov made preparations to leave the Distributary.
Of course, many will tear this to pieces simply because it references Truth to Power, a book riddled with lies. But here is where yet another symmetry has recently arisen. According to the Witch Queen Collector’s Edition lorebook, the Marasenna is a hagiography riddled with lies and exaggerations. Lord Shaxx points out several of Mara’s lies regarding Sjur Eido. Mara Sov is amused and aroused by Shaxx’s insight into Sjur’s character, and offers to tell him the truth of Sjur Eido, if only he agrees to remove his helmet. This is not speculation. It is explicitly stated in the Witch Queen lorebook. The two Queens now have another thing in common: neither of their accounts in the lore can be taken at face value. Which opens the field for alternative interpretations such as those that I am outlining here.
The next obvious criticism/question is: how can Savathun have been inside Mara Sov if she was inside Osiris at the same time? The clue was given to us through astral alignment dialog which states that Savathun may have been interested in existing in multiple states simultaneously https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTWsT4ZkfuM I think Savathun tore out of Osiris’s body in front of us and Mara Sov in the beginning of the Season of the Lost as a form of misdirection. How many would suspect that an instance of her is also standing right there in the form of Mara Sov. What circumstantial evidence do I have that any of this is possible? There is a scene in the Witch Queen trailer that shows Savathun standing beside two clones of herself. Mara Sov is Savathun’s ultimate sleeper agent. She doesn’t even know that she is the Witch Queen. Also, how much of a coincidence is it that Mara Sov who has been gone for years finally resurfaces, but she’s side by side with and making what appears to be an incredibly shady deal with Savathun. She seemed unphased to see Savathun shed Osiris’s body like a snake shedding its skin. When I read that week’s lore entry and saw the line "But we're the same creature, are we not?" Savathûn wonders (Source: Ripples VII – Interpolation). I literally jumped out of my seat. I thought Bungie was going to reveal it right there, but alas Savathun only proceeded to highlight their many similarities. Nevertheless, I haven’t written off the possibility that Savathun’s words were a double entendre meant to hide the truth in plain sight. They really are the same creature.
Now let’s take a step back to the Battle of Saturn. Mara Sov sacrifices the Awoken fleet, not to save the inhabitants of Earth, not to secure the future of the Awoken, but so that she can be killed by Oryx, infiltrate his throne world, and break out with his powers after the Guardian (us) has killed him (Source: Awoken of the Reef Tyrannocide V). Everything goes perfectly to plan and who emerges with control of the Taken following Oryx’s demise? Savathun!
Fast forward to the present and we have several interesting revelations from the Witch Queen Collector’s lore. First, we see an instance where Eris Morn is uncomfortable even being remotely close to Mara Sov:
The journey to 136199 Eris (Dwarf planet coincidentally with the same name as Eris Morn) was very difficult for ERI-233 (Eris Morn’s codename). VIP #0704 (Mara Sov) had charged herself with some metaphysical quality salvaged from VIP #2015 (Oryx) which made it extremely difficult for Eris to tolerate her presence.
The last time a level of discomfort reminiscent of this was described was in the web lore, A Play of Shadow and Light wherein it appears that Ikora Rey is nearly crushed under the weight of Savathun’s darkness. Finally, the bombshell that sealed the deal for me is the revelation that Mara Sov single handedly destroyed a pyramid ship. (Source: Page 36 of Ikora’s Journal from the Witch Queen CE) in the outskirts of the solar system before the rest of the fleet had reached any of the other planets, and boy oh boy what do we find in the swamps of Savathun’s Throne World? A downed Pyramid ship.
Thanks, for reading. If I haven’t convinced you that Mara Sov is Savathun, I hope you at least enjoyed the ride.
Appendix: the question now remains. Where is the other clone of Savathun hiding out? Inside Eris Morn? Inside Crow?
Who knows? But what we do know is Spoiler Alert: Someone is going to die.
-
Just disproved by Exorcism mission.
-
3 RepliesOk your post got me curious and I've spent the past 10 hours diving down this rabbit hole. I really think you're on to something here. Mara might be Savathun (maybe from a separate timeline) also I think I've uncovered a huge plot twist evolving sleeper agents unknowingly or knowing working for Savatun. This goes way deep all the way back to books of sorrow planting the narrative threads the taken king dlc being a catalyst and then picks up with the Nine at the begging of D2. I'm working on putting this all together and it makes sense but it also doesn't because it starts getting timey whimsy wiggly wobbly relative to the curvature of space time near the event horizon of black holes. Yeah that last sentence is cryptic but for now it has to be. We only have about 1/2 the puzzle pieces but I think I might have 3 out o 4 corner pieces in place idk who knows to be honest at least its fun to speculate.
-
2 RepliesInteresting theory, but if anything, I feel like Mara Sov is likely to die in the coming weeks. Bungie has been hinting that there's likely going to be a major character death in the coming months. Crow dying would be low hanging fruit and would make this whole year feel like a waste. Killing another vanguard leader also seems unlikely, they aren't exactly the type to fight on the front lines after Cayde's death. Also didn't we see Mara Sov and Savathun in the same room at the start of the season, or at least an incantation of Savathun.
-
2 RepliesEdited by Natdeguerre: 2/9/2022 6:29:20 PMNice speculations as always, Mara and Savathun certainly like manipulating people. Dunno about them being the same. It seems unnecessary. Why can’t there be two powerful secretive women? But didn’t you just not too long again also speculated that Savathun is the owner of the pyramid ships? Yet in the CE apparently Mara destroyed one. Those can’t both be true if Savathun and Mara were the same person.
-
I’m gonna pretend I didn’t waste my time reading all of that
-
That is such a wack, crackpot theory.
-
Anyone want a hot cup of tea after reading that
-
Like all out there fan theories this sounds interesting to begin with before they start making up stuff to “explain” their theories and then they end up coming across like a jabbering mental patient. In short… no, just no
-
Debunked in a week
-
Excellent.. now explain to the class why you're completely wrong
-
Damn this guy really wrote all those paragraphs for a dumb theory
-
5 RepliesIt’s like I told you before. There is reasoned speculation and baseless speculation. You prefer baseless speculation. Ideas with little to no foundation. Then you build even wilder ideas off those flawed grounds. Baseless speculation is a nice mental exercise but will never solve the riddle. So it’s pointless to engage with it. Let’s look at the further flaws of your idea. Sathona didn’t hide the dead white worm from her siblings. She literally told them that it was talking to her. You assumed the singularity and Savathuns attempt happened [i]at the same time and at the same place[/i] [b][u]just by saying so[/u][/b]. Eris has been around Mara for a long time yet you can only cite her being uncomfortable after Mara absorbed a large amount of Darkness related power. As if that makes any sense. Mara destroyed a pyramid ship. Savathun salvaged it. And? That somehow proves something? It doesn’t. Too bad that degree didn’t teach you logic or deduction. All you do is spinfoil.
-
Are these rambling remotely supported or is this further evidence of high destiny exposure causing psychosis? I don’t understand why people insist of concocting these neither provable or unprovable loose ideas surrounding bungies vague and ambiguous story. Just because Luke smith can’t tie a loose end bigger than his broken belt doesn’t mean you will on his behalf. Destiny’s story is window dressing to the endless loot grind no greater plan exists. In your defense though your wild theories are a step above fan fictions. Just a small step.
-
8 RepliesAs stated previously when you briefly mentioned the idea, they’re not the same character. The two have parallels, sure, but that’s not because of the fact that they’re the same character. That’s an intentional similarity as Forsaken has shifted around to re-contextualise the events of The Taken King. It places Savathûn and Mara as opposites, rivals, yet similar. Hell, do you think it’s a coincidence that Uldren dies in that very same expansion, adding another level of comparison to them? Now then, as a point towards the CE entry where Eris is repulsed by Mara Sov, Eris directly attributes this to Oryx, recognising the presence she exudes. If this was Savathûn, not only do I think Eris would have noticed, but this would also mean that if Mara had indeed destroyed a Pyramid Ship the fleet at large would have already known Savathûn was moving against them long before the events of Arrivals. Attributing Savathûn’s deceptions and manipulations to simply impersonation is selling the character short. She didn’t need to impersonate anyone in order for us to hand her the Dreaming City on a silver platter. The Witch Queen is cunning and Mara Sov’s arrogance to think she can outdo her in this department will be her undoing. As for her motivations during the Battle of Saturn, you also have to remember that the main goal was simply to kill Oryx. The attack on the Dreadnought had another outcome besides the devastation of the Awoken Fleet. It also stopped Oryx’s advance through the Solar System, where he simply waited in Saturn’s rings. What do you think would’ve happened if the Dreadnought had reached Earth? The Red Legion fleet decimated us in a surprise attack, how do you think the City would’ve faired against the full paracausal power of the Champion of the Deep? Finally, to make the order of this response even weirder, why was Mara Sov not phased by Savathûn transforming from Osiris. Perhaps because they had been negotiating said deal for some time before we arrived to confront them. Mara Sov knew it was Savathûn before we arrived because Savathûn didn’t attempt to hide it. Hence why Mara is the only character to respond to the transformation instead of simply being in shock.
-
4 RepliesEdited by Lore Oradon: 2/8/2022 8:34:07 PMYou left out so damn much. OMG.
-
2 RepliesThis works. The question is, will Bungie turn space-Galadriel into a villain?
-
Mara is dead, only Savathun remains...
-
7 Replieswe literally see mara cast savathun into some kind of crystal at the beginning of this season.
-
1 ReplyThe singularity was formed by the Traveler shooting a beam of Light at the Darkness thing that was accosting the ship. That combination of the two powers produced the singularity. The first one in a pocket dimension sets the rules. That’s been consistent. This idea is even more far fetched then your last.
-
5 RepliesNah, fam. They're separate, & Mara is about to die.
-
6 RepliesI think its eris…if you remember from shadowkeep, when eris touches the cloaked statue she turns and gives a creepy smirk
-
1 ReplyHi Guardian and cheers for the amazing read! I went out on a limb 6 months ago and said, as a twist Mara=Savathun. Maybe I should start buying lottery tickets?? LOL. Whatever the case, that was captivating and although speculative, logical. Cheers!
-
Mara is going to expose the worm. Into herself.
-
1 ReplyOh -blam!- and I just see this as I go post on your other one about my unique emanations... -blam!- man, I'll give this a read in a second lol...damn.
-
1 ReplyYooooooo this is crazy