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Edited by Duvain-4:
12/24/2021 10:50:34 PM
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Honest curiosity question about Anti-Hunter people.
Hello, this is not a post meant to spark massive arguments, not what I'm looking for I just want to clarify some things that I still don't understand about the Destiny community.
So, in regards to PvP Hunters are often the alleged source of 2/3 posts of imbalances in the crucible. Also, most posts about issues Hunters experience are shot down and buried on the forums for whatever reasons. Sure, some are toxic people posting out of anger, but many are honest concerns or questions from players. But they get the same treatment, down voted to 0, and tossed in the gutter, while ragging on the original author of said post.
What makes Hunters so overpowered in your eyes?
[b]One issue I hear about is St0mp-ee5[/b]. I cannot believe this is the cause because Warlock and Titan both have their own stompeez which have much the same effect, if not more useful I would say.
[b]For example, Dunmarchers[/b]. Dunmarchers offer greatly increased sprint speed, and after a short amount of time you gain a special melee ability to punch one target and have the damage partially chain to nearby targets. This chain is quite extensive to and is great for weakening all nearby combatants/players for you or your team to mop up.
[b]For Warlocks there are Transversive Steps[/b]. Transversive Steps offer the user one again increased sprint speed, and after a short time reloads the weapons currently in your hands. This is very useful as you can just never stop sprinting to reload as a shotgun rush player or fusion player cause the weapon reloads for you wit these boots on.
[b]Now back to St0mp-ee5[/b]. these boots offer the user faster sprint, and greater jump height as well as slide distance. This slide distance really is where I feel the frustration comes from as a user can slde from a good distance away and suddenly be right in your face with a shotgun.
Those movement exotics being described now, they all have their uses but I still fail to see how the hunter is the most OP of the group, you still have to reload, yes you can jump higher but that often doesn't save you unless you can manage to get out of the shotgun range in a vertical fashion.
Now to another common complaint
Why is dodge overpowered in your eyes?
[b]For a warlock[/b] to say this, unless they are on top tree solar, I can understand. The rift takes a long time to set down and are often killed while doing this.
[b]However titans confuse me[/b] a bit more, being faster on their feet than hunters, often can catch a hunter that dodges away with ease, and with the recent nerf to projectile track breaking a dodge won't offer a one off save from a sniper shot either. There is an exotic for titans that let them put up a barricade that they can shoot through. This provides absolute immunity from anything whilst behind it and extends this ability to any team member as well.
Lets move to health exotics shall we?
[b]Hunters have a helmet called Wormhusk Crown[/b] that offers a bump in shield health when a dodge is preformed, and a small return of health. Nothing to drastic, just allows a hunter a quick recovery that may or may not save you and is a one and done effect, no lasting buff is applied.
[i]EDIT: I totally forgot about the Void invis hunter helmet that starts health regen on dodgeing to go invis, apologies for that. Useful but again no lasting effects involved[/i]
[b]Titans have the infamous One Eyed Mask[/b]. This helmet allows the user to mark targets by being damaged by them, and if they kill said target they gain a overshield for... well honestly I do not know the exact time. However the process to gain the overshield can be done at any time no cooldown required. They also have the [b]Insurmountable Skullfort[/b], which gives health and returns the arc melee ability used to get a kill. Honestly titans have so many I'll just not list the others perks and just say Precious Scars, Eternal Warrior, Mask of the Quiet One.
[b]Warlocks[/b] I think have less health based exotics in truth, I have found the [b]Karnstein Gauntlets[/b] and I suppose Promethium Spur could be included as a health exotic.
Just some points I have collected to present with my question, I shall await your answers.
[i]If you are one of those people going to just post "lol hunter main cry" stuff, don't bother. It doesn't help you or take away from the post. it just makes you look like you have no good response to give.[/i]
As always, thanks for taking the time to read.
-Duvain
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1 ReplyDear gods. Text walls ACTIVATE!
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Edited by MasterCJ117: 12/27/2021 10:50:44 PMBefore I get to my response to your specific questions MY big issue with Hunters is how Bungie treats them way better than Warlock and especially Titans, The best example is Behemoth vs Silence & Squall nerfs, when they nerfed Behemoth it was put into the dirt and stomped on before being brought back up there were months where Behemoth titans were a rare sight in PvP, when they nerfed S&S they carefully nerfed it slowly over several months and there was no point where it died out, then Warlocks are kinda just existing in between getting harsh nerfs but fixed the next week and rarely causing issues, technically Warlocks could be considered the favorites lol. Also another nerf to Titan I won't get into the details of that pissed me of even though Hunters have the same exact perk/build but better is Knockout & Combination Blow. The main issue for St0mp-ee5 isn't the sprinting/ground movement rather it's the way Hunter jump works in general, when a Hunter jumps it barely affects their aiming in the air ,no effect if you include Icarus Grip, and it doesn't un-draw bows either, the closest you can get to that on other classes is Catapult with Lion Rampants, the issue St0mp-ee5 brings is the speed/height they go up and the air time they get, because of that speed especially in melee distance most people lose track of the person they were just fighting as if they disappeared, and often get shotgunned in the top of the head for example, I've watched a Hunter main friend use it and we both agree it's kinda disgusting. Personally, no issue with dodge, I don't understand that one myself, I could see Gemini Jesters & Bombardiers being annoying though. This part kinda turned into, "Here are Exotics that heal you + some personal opinions" lol Healing wise the Wormhusk Crown is the strongest of the bunch just because it only requires a dodge to heal + the dodging helps avoid damage and move into cover, it also probably has a slight PTSD effect on people because when it was added to the game it gave full healing on dodge basically turning a 1v1 fight into a 2v1 fight, Otherwise the Lairs Handshake is kinda nuts with top tree Arc Staff, it gives healing when you kill with Arc abilities & counters Assassins Cowl also heals & gives invisibility from ability kill, For Titans, the closest to Wormhusk is actually Ice Fall Mantle on Titan which uses the barricade to give an overshield but using that mid fight will get you killed as you are immobile during activation and have no mobility while it's active so it's best to enter a fight with it or use it after getting cover, For One-Eyed Mask I personally never actually liked it or had issue fighting it so no opinion really, Skullfort is basically useless in PvP now that Shoulder Charge was nerfed and bottom tree striker has heal from melee kills anyway, Precious Scars only works when reviving so Trails only and I never see people use it, although it was decent the times I tried it, teammates would complain "Use something better" Eternal Warrior I never see people use, it's a decent overshield (no healing) for Fist of Havoc only but honestly kinda worthless, if it worked for ThunderCrash it would be amazing, Mask of the Quiet One I've tried but I never get the healing to activate, I honestly think it doesn't even work lol, No Back up Plans activate the melee ability overshield on shotgun kills so that's kinda cool, Warlocks have Devour(basically One-Eyed Mask on crack) & Rifts so they have the best potential healing & support healing with Boots of the Assembler, Karnstein Gauntlets exist and were a pain in the past but I think everyone forgot they exist, Then Apotheosis Veil regens all Health & abilities when super is cast, I'm shocked I don't see that in PvP ever, Promethium Spur creates both rifts at the targets location when killed by super & with a (Solar only?) WEAPON when rift is full so that is also shocking to not see more (I didn't know it did that)
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7 RepliesTo go with specifically St0mps: The problem with St0mps is kind of from two prongs. For starters, they have the strongest perk of all 3 of the "increased Sprint speed" boots, while said perk has 100% uptime, unlike the other two (and depending on gun, T-Steps can actually hurt you). This is obviously after Synthocepts got fixed, too. But St0mps have the strongest neutral perk in the entire game overall, in essentially giving you Blink without most of the downsides/quirks of running Blink. The other prong is that it's power simply invalidates most Hunter exotics with it's existence. Why would I run Dragon's Shadow when St0mps gives me more overall advantage overall with 100% uptime? It's been number one or number two in terms of exotics since it's inception, only really being challenged by old OEM and potentially pre-nerf Synthocepts. Neither other class has this big of a "what's the point in not running this?" Exotic. Other than St0mps, I don't really have problems with Hunter as a whole, it's just the lesser subs on the other two classes need some serious help (Void Warlock in General, Bottom Dawn, and a lot of your Titan builds that aren't Bottom/Mid Striker and Sunspots).
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I never understood the dislike for certain characters, I play all three.
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14 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 12/25/2021 10:17:23 PMGot into it earlier today with a couple of Hunter mains. I’ll explain why you face such anti-Hunter hostility from the player base. First, I’m a Warlock main who has played all three classes for 7 years. So I have nothing against the class itself and no resentment towards it. But the fact is that Hunters are specifically designed for pvp, and the sandbox is routinely tipped in their favor in pvp. Which I can live with. But what really pisses the rest of the community off is the sense of entitlement that radiates off many pvp Hunter mains, and the whining about every little adjustment that reduces their advantage in pvp. They feel that it’s their right to dominate pvp and anything that reduces that dominance is unfair by definition. For example. Stasis dropped hot, and arguably OP. Shadebinder (stasis Warlocks) got nerfed AFTER ONLY 8 Days Into the Beyond Light expansion. While Revenants (Stasis Hunters) are only now getting nerfed after a YEAR of Shatterdive. But even that nerf was softened by buffs to their super to make it more effective. Nerfs are always last to come to Hunters while they are always first and hardest to come to Warlocks. Year Hunters mains will whine and cry like victims when Z Bungie finally gets around to just [i]reducing[/i] the advantages they have over other classes. It why Hunters outnumber Titans in high level pvp like 3 or 4 to 1 on console, and outnumber Warlocks like 10 to 1. They are easier to play and are more effective in pvp. Especially against other hunters. Just watch Cool Guys video on the need to nerf Stomp-eyes, and see what levels of agility Hunters are capable of with that exotic with no disadvantages? And you’ll see why the rest of the community are sick and tired of hearing the complaints about the rare (but almost always long overdue) nerf to Hunters.
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8 RepliesWithout reading the other comments I’ll simply say, from my end being a Warlock main, Hunters are naturally suited for PvP. More so than Titans or Warlocks. Hunters do not need any other abilities other than their jump and/or their dodge to make the Crucible their playground. I would say that supers also make them even stronger since these traits compliment it but that’s also based on circumstances. In D1 strong abilities were a counter to movement. In D2 Bungie has yet to realize that, even before the ability changes. Putting every class on “even ground” was a mistake. Warlocks have one subclass tree based on movement and a single jump ability for Voidwalkers that can compete with Hunters. Titans now have Shoulder Charge for better movement and when used correctly they have Barricade and other tools. Small maps. Less ability spam. Easy access to special ammo. It’s easy to see why Hunters frustrate the crap out of us.
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TL:DR, but the gist of it is a large portion of the player base play on Hunter's. Now, I'm not one of those elites, but I've been told by people who taught me this game that "gud" players can maintain their consistency regardless of which class they use. Now, on to why Hunter's get hate - they used to be faster, more agile, and could dodge away instantly from combat. I don't understand the hate on Stompeez. However, I find myself doing better on my Titan/Warlock than my Hunter, and that's as a Hunter main. But then again, people used to hate on Titans for their shoulder charge, or Titan slam, or Warlocks with their kamehameha melee's.
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I just like the jumps. I also like Arcstrider. Couldnt give any less of a sh*t what people complain about. Dont like it? Dont play it.
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People don’t like us because we have the best class items
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Edited by Demon_XXVII: 12/26/2021 5:00:19 PMI blame Bungie For not shutting this pathetic rivalry down early in the life of Destiny Actually creating hatred & bias in a video game is frankly ironic (having seen their push for acceptances across the last few years) The Hunter/Warlock/Titan trifecta should be the ideal fireteam in PvE (utilising & working off each other, allowing all skill sets to shine) And it’s not like the good/great Warlocks & Titans can’t dominate PvP matches with aerial superiority & things like rifts, barriers, the best grenades & some kick -blam!- supers to destroy anyone in a 1v1, 1v2 scenario
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Edited by J4RDAAN_: 12/26/2021 8:51:20 AMPersonally I don’t like hunters at all. But I think it’s because hunters have a ton of things that synergizes very well to give them the upper hand. Like dodging for example (I know some are from exotics or specific subclasses): dodge to reload, go invis, regen, blind, poop a grenade and now slow/freeze with stasis. Titans only have citan's and khpri's horn. Warlocks have a bit more I guess. Additionally, hunters have the ability to “reset” the fight by dodging and gaining something in the process while warlocks are still exposed when using the rift and titan’s barricade can be easily destroyed or jumped over. So hunters have it particularly easy to engage, reset, repeat. Let’s not forget that some supers are more crowd control oriented. So they only need to cast the super and it will freeze, tether or stab (blade barrage) without too much effort. Arc staff can deflect enemy supers and make it “yours”. So long story short, hunters have more “easy” ways at their disposal to win a fight than the other two. That makes them more attractive or viable since it is “easier” to control a fight.
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It’s not the movement speed that makes stompiees annoying, it’s the jump. If you’re in a fight and the hunter starts losing, all he has to do is jump twice to get out of battle. This also boils down to hunters having the best jump for pvp. They can quickly make their way into the air (basically a dodge) while the other classes have to slowly float up.
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Can you fat hairy nerds stop role-playing now?
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Idgaf bruh. Just went full toxic. Monarque, stompees, and I bm all day long. -blam!- pvp.
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Hello Guardian! It's not the class, but the movement ability IMO. The old Aussie saying ..." Can't piss on flies to make 'em go away..." rings true. It's about the vertical/horizontal/physics defying movement that gets us other classes. Titans and Warlocks have their movement options, but NO WAY in such a small space. We simply cannot traverse in 45 degree angles (and halve that and halve it again) with 100+++ movement. It's not the class Guardian, it's the ability to move at ridiculous speeds within a tiny "box" that doesn't allow shots to land. This means a player keeps moving and the opponent keeps missing. Then the Hunter takes the opportunity to make a kill. The other way for a Hunter is to keep moving, use invisibility to stay off radar, and then use a SG. What hope of a level playing field is there Hunter Main????? It is made to be biased AGAINST ALL OTHERS!! Us [u]stubborn [/u]other classes will remain as your KD fodder. I've accepted it a long time ago and the only thing that drives me back to PvP (apart from weapon testing) is to see how many laggy, Felwinter/HC/Stompee-Crutch users I can kill!!! I don't t care about how many times I get whacked.[b] I just wanna get a few Hunters. PERIOD.[/b] Because it's the hardest thing to land a shot on. Now add the Cross-Play LAGFEST to this. On the opposite end of things, you would go bonkers trying to land a shot if Titans had Stompees!! I've mentioned this many a time BEFORE FORSAKEN LAUNCHED. Bungie's answer was to increase speed. Then when Stasis launched, Shuriken's and Shatterdive etc etc etc. So the "nerf" that Hunters recently got was really a buff. The extra damage Hunters "lost" was moved to another playstyle, WHILE MAINATINING NO PENALTY TO MOVEMENT BUFFS. Oh, and Arc Hunters are now Top-Tier, supposedly for PvE. BULLS**T. It is designed to serve the [u]upper echelon of players who use exclusively Hunter and stream.[/u] In PvP It is still, MILES ahead of ANYTHING that can be HUMANLY seen, and HUMANLY targeted. [b][/b] The anger in General is not to you Guardian, but Bungie. They made this possible. Not you. [b][/b] [u][/u]
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1 ReplyI cannot believe this is the cause because Warlock and Titan both have their own stompeez which have much the same effect, if not more useful I would say. Here is your problem of the bat titan and warlock require something to activate while hunters is free if you dont understand that sorry
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In D1 I started as a warlock then went to titan and then finally hunter, been playing mostly hunter ever since. I mainly play PvE and play PvP when I need to but from a PvE standpoint, I always found that titans and warlocks were too “floaty” and I’d be caught in the open trying to get to cover and end up dying especially in higher end content but with a hunter I tend to have less of a problem but still die due to dumb placement. When stasis came out I found it hard for me to switch back to the light subclasses due to the versatility and free stat points that it provides. I could put up a wall to either revive a teammate (like a makeshift barricade) or smash to clear the area, provide melee energy and a overshield to myself or teammates with stasis shards, and the free stat points allows me to statistically be both a hunter and a titan. My friends say that I should play titan and warlock more due to my supportive playstyle but I just could never get used to the glide and lifts again, the double jump just feels more natural to me
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On a scale of 1-10 how sad is your life? On a scale of 1-10 how bored were you when you wrote this? On a scale of 1-10 If you were a truck, what kinda truck would you be?
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I play all 3 and honestly Hunter is my least played. For me, it's less hate and more that it feels too much like... a beginners crutch. Just equip certain exotics, ape like your fur is grape colored and BAM there tou go. There's no real build, from what i've seen and played around with. Just Dodge and off you go. Build around anything else and you get no returns at all. That said, you don't get much of a return on building away from Recovery on a Warlock or Resilience on a Titan either. Guess it's a problem all over, lol.
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Hunter movement has the most fluidity and ease of use, building and redirecting momentum takes half the time and you have twice the surface to do it on while using stompies. As a person that mains hunter or warlock I can say hunter is the easy button for pvp as movement in this game is a key component to the experience and hunters movement is the easiest to abuse and master.
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Oh -blam!-, Hunter racism? Time to cancel the Warlocks.
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I think the majority of the hate toward hunter and how “they’re too op boo they need everything nerfed boo” is because us hunters out number the other 2 class 3-1. Prime example: shatter dive. It was pretty strong in the beginning but no more powerful than the thunder crash melee, ACD-O feedbacks, or handheld nova. It only seemed op because most crucible teams are half hunter. This happens every time hunters get something that is on par with titan 1 tap abilities or warlock utilities. It also doesn’t help that hunter players have similar cosmetic builds, We wear black like it’s going out of style. So when you die to a dark armor stasis hunter respawn then die again to an almost identical hunter, it feels like the abilities or combos are op.
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4 RepliesPeople that complain about any class aren’t anyone to be taken seriously.
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8 RepliesI will never play hunter or warlock, I started out as a Titan and realize there's no time for me to play 3 characters. I will be Titans all the way. I don't hate hunters but simply don't have time for their hoodies and knife throwing ways. Class balance is great right now also, no one should be screeching about the balance.
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The only Titan exotics that you mentions that are decent in PvP are Dunemarchers and to a much lesser extent OEM: Every other Titan exotic you name dropped is hot trash in PvP.
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1 ReplyEdited by Jdniscool: 12/25/2021 3:42:50 PMHunter is literally easy-mode, Duvain. You mention skullfort, but that exotic is now useless as shoulder charge is no longer a OHK (Which it still should be.) OEM got nerfed to crap for PvP, it’s useless Hunters have the better jump for PvP. A hunter jumps and I can barely track him (I realize this is moreso me playing on controller, but I can track Titans and warlocks fine.)
