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9/16/2021 3:28:29 PM
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Mara Sov is an abuser

She's an abuser

568

She's not an abuser

98

Destiny has lore?

95

[b]DISCLAIMER[/b]: This isn't meant to disrespect anyone who likes Mara or thinks she's hot, I am just expressing my opinion on why I do not like this character. I just needed to get this off my chest in a place where I won't get bombarded with accusations, harrassment, or threats for disliking this character. Mara Sov continously blames anyone she can for Uldren's demise (Jolyon Till the Rachis. our Guardian, the Vanguard, etc). Mara Sov who accuses the guardian of being unable to forgive Crow if he just resembled Uldren just a bit more. Expressing jealousy over his relationship with Glint and our Guardian, etc. This and Mara seems to completely flip between wanting Crow by her side to insulting Uldren. She speaks of Uldren as if he was a child, calls him pathetic, and overall ignored him when he was alive. Despite him literally risking his life to impress her, only to be brushed aside. Not only this, but despite knowing that the garden made him insane and knowing how much he wanted her approval, she questions his loyalty, driving him further into this mentality. She keeps secrets from him, making him double down and come back for more. She created this obsession, yet she speaks of it with utter disgust and continously infantilizes him, portraying him as helpless and hopeless. Her relationship with Crow seems to be a pattern of valuing and devaluing him (and who he used to be). In Astral Alignment it sounds as if she's desperate to have him return to the Dreaming City, yet as stated above--doesn't hesitate to make remarks about his past self behind his back. This leads me to believe one of the following. Mara is either 1. Upset that someone who looks like her brother is not obsessed with her. She misses him when he is gone, but as soon as he (or someone who looks like him) is not by her side, she misses him dearly until he's codependent again. Then she wants nothing to do with him. She does not truly care for him and is only so adament on having him back because seeing him with our guardian, the Vanguard, or Glint kindles a jealous streak. She doesn't view him as a person, but a posession. 2. Sees Uldren/Crow as an extension of herself. She does truly care for him, but only for that reason. This could also explain why her abusive mother, her brother are the people nearest and dearest to her heart with the exception of Sjur Eido being the odd one out. Either way, she currently love bombs him (calling him darling, offering him to stay in the Dreaming City, offering his past self's books from the library) in order to sway him by her side. It's important to note that it's not Crow she wants. It's [i]Uldren[/i]. She doesn't care about what Crow wants or who he would like to be. Crow has stated that he doesn't ever want to know his past self, he no longer wants to be chased by his past, yet Mara is determined to make Crow into Uldren. I've seen arguments that Crow should have a choice in the matter of getting close to Mara. While I agree Crow shouldn't be more stripped of answers and choices than he already is, I ask this. If Crow outright told Mara he didn't want to become her brother--would she accept that? Or would she continue to pull strings from behind the scenes to make him either devoted to her as Uldren was, or make him act more like her brother? As Mara said herself, she sees him as a canvas to shape into anything. She does not see The Crow as a person with his own wants, desires, and personality. Back on the subject of Mara's frequent blaming and shaming, let's go back to her general abusive behavior. Mara plays the victim--A LOT. She does it when she complains about "losing everything" despite her literally throwing people at Oryx and she throws a tantrum when our Ghost criticizes her. Rather make an argument to refute this, she commits a thought terminating cliché AKA "Why don't YOU try to rule, then?" and she acts like (as stated before) in regards to Uldren's death, despite being the ultimate cause of it. Mara claims to have sacrificed so much, but her sacrifices have always been other's sacrifices. She started a civil war to rule the Distributary. She pinned her crimes on Alis Li and had her exiled. She has ruined paradise and started civil wars for her benefit. She is essentially making Petra take part in making Crow become Uldren, something she clearly does not want to do and thinks is a bad idea. But she cannot question Mara when she is present--possibly due to being exiled in the past and Mara's volatile reactions to being questioned. I've heard people call Petra a s¡mp, but I don't actually think this is true. Mara Sov abuses nearly everyone she comes into contact with--the possible only exception being Sjur Eido. Even then, Sjur Eido knew Mara kept many secrets from her and is kind of dead. I know some people will probably argue that Mara is mentally ill or that her mother's abuse and neglect play a part in how she treats others, but truthfully that doesn't absolve her of anything she does. Especially regarding abuse, because being abused doesn't justify shifting it to someone else. But anyway, with all this is mind--I'm glad this season is addressing Mara's actions in the form of Ikora and Crow. She is finally being held accountable for her actions. TL;DR this a long wall of text post about how I don't like Mara. Mara Sov cannot take criticism, puts herself above others, abuses her brother and her wrath, is a war criminal, and I'm glad Bungie is finally addressing her flaws by having characters call her out on it.
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#lore #destiny2

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  • Ugh she is g*y to it fits the woke narrative .

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  • you say "war criminal" I say "mommy" we are not the same

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  • She was used to everything going her way and having knowledge of how things would go. When finally when things didnt go her way, she really doesnt know what to do and blames others. The state of The Awoken was ultimately her own fault as she did lead most of her fleet to complete annihilation via Oryx, in her own gamble of trying to steal Oryx's Throne World...which Oryx gave her the finger and took it with him as he died. Then with no real leadership aside from Petra, who just waits for Mara to tell her what to do, The Awoken were kinda doomed after her ''death''...no blame on Petra though. Now she thinks she can outsmart The God of Deceit...who's been a god longer than Mara has been alive many times over. Really I think Savathun will obtain the Light or an understanding of it through some blunder of Mara's part.

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  • I have found my crowd at last. Ever since D1 I've disliked her, with red flags waving all the way, and finally more people are seeing them. I so hope Savathûn's plan results in a big middle finger to Mara. Her arrogance in thinking she can outsmart Savathûn - a potentially millions/billions year old being whose entire existence has revolved around trickery and deceit - is astounding

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  • Edited by Adjutant : 9/17/2021 9:04:04 PM
    She can abuse me anytime~ Ah geez. My inner Awoken just sprang out.

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    • Edited by KannibalKlown: 9/19/2021 9:20:50 PM
      Ummm war criminal? Closest I can see to that is she and her massive fleet tried to Zerg rush an enemy that would end ALLLLLL life in the solar system. And she miscalculated and her entire fleet was destroyed. She was responsible for their civil war in so much that she planted the seeds of the war so people would be willing to leave to fight the darkness. She wasn’t palpatine, controlling both sides’ strategies. Hell I think it was Ali’s that tried to nuke the fleet that was leaving the Distributary. That’s probably a bigger -blam!- move than what Mara did. Don’t get me wrong. She’s an awful person and whether or not she has good reasons for her -blam!- moves, there’s not a lot to like about her. It’s like the opposite of Savuthun. You can cherry pick events and leave out motives to make an evil person sound good, or in this case a bad person sound evil. And no. I’m not simping for her. Her personality sucks and since D2 she’s had permanent resting itch face. And I’m not the one to get off on video game assets, and if I were she had the exact same body as all other Awoken women so what would make her special anyway?

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    • Edited by Screwed Up Dinosaur: 9/19/2021 8:33:05 PM
      You are right. Side note: ur mention of our ghost made me realize once more, how much i hate him. I really wish we could change ghosts..

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    • Bro we are fighting -blam!- evil alien races and gods with magical space powers. And you’re taking the time to care about whether a mystical god Queen is emotionally or mentally abusive? What is wrong with you people?

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      • When the Hive God of Cunning/Deceit is more sympathetic than the Awoken Queen we’ve had more interactions with…

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        • Never trust an awoken.

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          • Mara Sov has been thoroughly unlikeable since she was introduced. I never understood why anyone liked her except for the obvious reasons. She’s assumed to be a cool, calculating character who sacrifices everything for her people when in reality she’s just… awful in so many ways. Selfish, capricious, vain, duplicitous, her flaws easily outweigh her positive traits.

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            • Right now, I’m more concerned that Mara seems to think she can out-trick the literal goddess of lies. Her shenanigans are definitely gonna cause the events of Witch Queen.

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              • If anything I’d probably rethink the whole Techeun thing. Maybe its just me but given we have to constantly rescue them perhaps Mara should reconsider not employing them.

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              • I wouldn't go as far as calling her an abuser though she is extremely manipulative. I see a clear and genuine love for Uldren from her, but no proper way of expressing it. In fact, at times I really do think she's not expressing any not out of just being a -blam!- but trying to keep herself from doing something equally as risky as Crow's blind unwavering devotion from when he was Uldren. She's a ruler first. Some her dialogue shows clear guilt, regret, and wanting to change not only just for the sake of possibly having Crow at her side to have that spark of Uldren, but just not having him be written off in the grand scheme regardless of where he is. She has a whole bit about this at the end of the Ager's Scepter quest. She gets extremely cross when talking about this, clearly cross at herself and the situation she put him in. She doesn't want him to feel useless because of his devotion that he has to things. And past this, she wants us to look after Crow and gives us a direct warning of what she did wrong and to not make that mistake ourselves. That we may "inspire blind devotion". On the note of this devotion, while Mara is partly to blame I believe this is also just part of who Uldren was and now Crow at a base level, regardless of trauma or their position. I do think while Uldren was manipulated a lot and that would definitely confuse him, I do think there was a part of him that seemed to not care one way or the other about how he was with Mara. He just wanted to be with her. I see a bit of Stockholm Syndrome-ish behavior here. I say ish because again, I don't see Mara as abusive per say. Here's my thing, we've seen as both Uldren and Crow, he's a very outspoken individual. I think he would've said something to Mara in all honesty. I believe he understood his position to a certain extent and decided to just not argue with it to keep with her and sympathized with her position as queen despite being manipulated so much. I don't see an abuser, I see a flawed monarch that wants what's best for those around her after her many failures. She's stayed cold and distant long enough, something that can be very clearly heard in her tone and word choice from the terminal in Zavala's office from back in Season 12 with her transmission. She's been more open and understanding with us, she been more open and frankly casual with Petra, and she's laying out her hand while vulnerable right to us. I really do believe its overkill and even leaping to a conclusion before properly understanding the facts of the situation to call her an abuser. Not saying she has a clean slate, not saying she's the best even for that matter, but this is several steps too far and borderline ignores some context of her speech. Also, we're all war criminals I have 0 clue why you even mentioned that at all in regards to this universe. As for criticism, Mara showed us in the past she can't take it, but has certainly opened herself up more (just by telling us about the full relationship between her and Uldren for one), to not only taking blame, but criticism that comes with it. In one of her dialogues upon chatting at the compass after the weekly quest, I forget which step of it exactly, she had a line that went along the lines of "You think I'm wrong...perhaps I am...but this must be done." This was in regards to her overall plans of taking back the Dreaming City but still, it just shows there's more to this. Just my 2 cents.

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              • Mara is clearly an abuser. NO question. The only real issue that is open to discussion is whether she is this way because she is a psychopath or because part of it is the fact that she is a queen. So some of her authoritarian, shameless, and exploitative behavior is being driven by royal affectation and the expectations of her throne. But she is still an toxic personality and an abuser even if some of her behavior is being driven by the Game of Thrones. Where you really see it is IN her relationship with her brother. In their interactions there is a lack of interpersonal boundaries and limits that is pathologic....and downright creepy at times because its a dynamic that you see more often in dysfunctional ROMANTIC relationships between adults instead of between SIBLINGS. On the one hand her affection for her brother is her one, LONE...."human credential" (attribute that suggests she is a "good" person). But it is a weak one. Their relationship has a toxic Dominant/Submissive quality to it. Where Mara spends all of her time dominating Uldren (and now the Crow's) will (though Crow is MUCH less susceptible and accepting of this than Uldren EVER was...a point that both Petra and Mara are blind to. Partly because of Mara's on psychopathology....and Petra's codependent relationship with Mara). She manipulates him. She decieives him. All with the intention of CONTROLING him and "shaping" him....all with NO input from HIM as to what he wants or what is best for himself. Like many abusers she seeks to ISOLATE him and make him dependant upon her....while showing contempt and loathing for the dependancy that she's determined to foster and maintain. In short, she doesn't treat Uldren/Crow like a seperate person. She treats him like an extension of herself...and that he exists to meet HER needs. Not to have a satisfying life of his own. Uldren Sov was a classic codependant/ survivor of relationship trauma. His whole world revolves around pleasing Mara and winning her approval. He ends up destroying much of the Reef and his own life in trying to get back to someone who calmly and callously sacrificed him like a pawn in an opening Gambit when it suited her needs. Same with Petra. She lives and breathes to gain approval from Mara like a Mother figure...and her relationship with Crow is almost like they are sibling rivals trying to compete for affection and approval from a cold, witholding and narcissitic mother figure. Crow is interesting though. Whereas Uldren was a compulsive people pleaser of the powerful female figures around him in the matriarchal society of The Awoken....Crow is showing signs of health that his abusers keep failing to notice. Crow doesn't seem to care about approval. He isn't willing to accept the bad behavior or submit willingly to the manipulations of those around them. He knows what he wants. Speaks up for it...and stands up for it. He holds the people around him accountable for their behavior.....while also being MUCH more self-aware of his own failings than Uldren ever was. Which is why I see Crow as a second-chance bestowed on Uldren by The Traveler. A chance to be the person he COULD have been if he hadn't been raised in such a toxic family and raised to be in a FUSED (where two people fail to see themselves as seperate and live as one dysfunctional psychological and emotional organism....this fusion is only healthy between a mother and an infant) relationship with an arguably psychopathic sibling. ...and right now I'm liking what I'm seeing right now. While Petra and Mara decry him as "weak" and "dependant" and "devotional"...he's like many "scapegoats" in dysfunctional families. He's the healthiest person in the entire -blam!- show.

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                • She is this universe's Machiavelli, and I dig it. Do what must be done to ensure the survival of her people, regardless of the emotional costs.

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                  • What kind of gun do you think she will become? I but it will be eye appealing but ineffective.

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                    • Mara is fine. People just become too soft.

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                    • She is what as known as a Dark Triad personality/mental disorder. As is seemingly Savathun. Run as far as you can in the opposite direction from people like that!

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                    • So pretty much she's a modern woman lol.

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                      • She can abuse me all day, all night. I'm all for it 🔥

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                      • I think Mara is angry we or the Vanguard "deprived" her of the opportunity to manipulate and control her own Lightbearer. Myelin Games threw out the theory that Spider was supposed to keep Crow so Petra could come fetch him eventually.

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                        • How is she a war criminal I must of missed that some where but also would it not make sense for some one who also has power on par with guardians has a throne world is destroyed a hive fleet and basically has all the information before we do about anything wouldn't it make sense for her to hold her self in a league of her kings and queens will always treat other people and pawns or objects it is in there nature

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                        • Crow is officially one of us. And now Mara suddenly gives a -blam!-.

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                        • Lets keep something in mind. Mara is a queen, she is conditioned to getting pretty much anything she wants and that's on top of the Awoken having an air of superiority over everybody else just as a culture. In a community of snobs she is snob supreme. She treated Uldren like a henchman, yes, but there's a difference between being toxic to somebody who keeps coming back and them straight up dead. Between that and her incredibly humbling defeat in Taken King, she's forced to kinda be just a woman. Petra is talking to her at a comfort we really never heard before. Her kingdom is still infested with Taken, a constant reminder of her biggest loss - and now Scorn are everywhere. And then her brother, somebody she probably didn't know she actually needed, is back. But not really. The 'new light' resurrection process means that Crow is symbolically 'Uldren moved on', and that stings. And she has to notice that he's simply a happier, fulfilled person *without* the memories of growing up with her. The icing on the cake? It's among various peoples she considers dirt. Mara has gotten reality check after reality check lately. And while your assessment is perfectly valid given her past and current voicelines and lore - I think somebody should tell Crow wassup so he can choose to be there for her. And especially before he thinks she's in love with him or something. That's the only logical conclusion from his perspective, Bungie fix this.

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                          • Oh she can abuse me

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