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Edited by Bush's Baked Beans:
8/6/2021 3:18:44 AM
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Crow because vanguard dare. Any other option is wrong. This thread is locked and all comments besides this one will be deleted
Edit - before I get more comments, let me introduce you the ship of Theseus, a philosophical thought experiment dealing with identity:
Imagine a ship built for war, that is part of the fleet battle after battle. After every battle, the ship has to come to shore to repair different parts of the ship, up until the every single component of the ship is no longer original. Is this still the same ship, or has it lost its original identity?
Some guiding questions -
If Crow's character is dependant upon his previous life than has he truly lost the identity of uldren? (There's a reason why crow isn't some Joe schmo guardian)
At what point does crow lose the identity and deeds of uldren, or is it impossible?
English
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Edited by Centaur-1: 8/6/2021 10:08:08 PM[quote]If Crow's character is dependant upon his previous life than has he truly lost the identity of uldren? (There's a reason why crow isn't some Joe schmo guardian) At what point does crow lose the identity and deeds of uldren, or is it impossible?[/quote] Crow is Uldren. If you hit your head and get amnesia, you’re still you. He is making up for his crimes as a guardian.
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First of all, crow is not uldren. Uldren killed cayde, not crow. Second of all, crow is basically a new light. He would not have the necessary skills to be in the vanguard
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From the Instability lore book "2. Regarding the open Hunter Vanguard position and the terms of Cayde's Dare: The situation is unprecedented. Were we to trace the chain of culpability back to its first link, I believe we would be obligated to elect a Hive god to our council." https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/instability Really don't see Crow joining the Vanguard. Also Uldren killed Cayde not Crow.
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[quote]Crow because vanguard dare. Any other option is wrong. This thread is locked and all comments besides this one will be deleted[/quote] People like you are why I'm sad people don't read the lore. The crow didn't fufil caydes dare, end of discussion. He has 0 claim.
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It's up for debate. Crow is 100% a hunter, but is a guardians class defined [i]before[/i] their death? Unlikely because guardians make their own fate, however, this would leave us with shrodinger as being hunter vanguard. If uldren and crow are considered to be one in the same, then it could be argued that uldren is a hunter, thus fulfilling the dare. I see crow being one in the same as uldren, as Crow's past is wholly part of the guardian he is becoming. However this also puts into question vanguard policy on guardian's past, as Crow's existence is a direct opposition to this rule, even though the vanguard try to avoid it as much as possible
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[quote]It's up for debate. Crow is 100% a hunter, but is a guardians class defined [i]before[/i] their death? Unlikely because guardians make their own fate, however, this would leave us with shrodinger as being hunter vanguard. If uldren and crow are considered to be one in the same, then it could be argued that uldren is a hunter, thus fulfilling the dare. I see crow being one in the same as uldren, as Crow's past is wholly part of the guardian he is becoming. However this also puts into question vanguard policy on guardian's past, as Crow's existence is a direct opposition to this rule, even though the vanguard try to avoid it as much as possible[/quote] ULDREN IS DEAD. we are not the same people as the ones who dies, we are something new... a vessel for the light. Appearance wise, it's pure coincidence. Uldren was the awoken prince, not a guardian and definitely not a hunter. What class you are isn't determined pre resurrection, its random.
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Again, it is completely up for debate. I could easily write you a 10 page essay about the ship of Theseus, and how Crow's existence is heavily hindered on the actions of uldren. As the saying goes, you have 2 deaths - one physical, where your body dies, and one mental, where your memory is forgotten
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Mate, I don't want to come off as disrespectful or a dick but that has nothing to do with how ressurection works with guardians. When you are revived you have 0 memories, 0 knowlage of what came before... Any guardian that looks into the past life of said person is shunned as its taboo. You are essentially picking up where someone else left off. Uldren is dead, never coming back and is 100% deader that dead. The crow is a vessel for the light that looks like uldren. The crow has heard about uldren and commented on who he was and he doesn't want to be like HIM. He sees himself as a separate entity as every guardian is. As it stands, the crow wasn't born until way after uldren was killed.
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Whether Crow has a claim because of the Dare is debatable. Uldren is the one who killed Cayde, is Crow Uldren?
