Wait... did you just use good sense and logic for your argument? Guys, we found a unicorn! [spoiler]All seriousness though, I can see the effort and thought you put into this argument. Unlike most, you presented a very well-informed point. But sadly, since this update has already rolled out, the only thing we can do is wait and see how it pans out.[/spoiler]

If this hits PvE too my beautiful, gorgeous Sturm/Drang will literally get bent over a table and I’m pissed.

So 120s will change from being easy to use and a single kill with rampage granting insane lethality to being easy to use but more difficult to get its lethality started. I expect 120s to still have a place with such high chip damage but 140s will likely be the new meta handcannons being able to out duel a 120 assuming you hit your shots most notable 140 will be ace of spades or thorn. I also suspect a pulse rifle meta with messenger being able to 2 burst and profiting from desperado and the dueling capabilities of rapid fire pulses they may have a bump up on the totem poll.

What the 120 nerf means: Now everyone will be using 140s because HCs are still easy mode. The bullet bending angle needs to be reduced from a 2.5-3 to a 1.3-1.8 to make it more in line with other semi auto burst weapons.

While I'm impressed with the OP, and the fact that Bungie are trying to balance weapons, especially in crucible, I really don't care what nerfs or buffs are implemented because, in my opinion, I never experience a difference. Stasis was supposed to have been "adjusted", but I'm still getting frozen and dying before I can thaw out. And I guess I'll still be 2 tapped by 120's and one shotted by shot guns after the next patch. The adjustments are always so minimalistic that they're barely noticeable. Instead of farting around with fractions, why don't they make shotguns 2 hit kill, and 120's 3 hit kill? Simple! The only way to enjoy PvP is when the weapons you like to use become meta. If they balanced the weapons in a way that you could actually use what you WANTED to and not what you HAVE to, I feel more players would take part and it would be a more enjoyable experience.

[quote] Why bother using a weapon that not only kills slower, but is barely more forgiving than it's far more stable and reliable cousin? [/quote] Welcome to every other weapon that isn't META

Its justified and it fixes the issues at the heart. A solo aa nerf wouldn't fix the core issue of it hitting to far and for a crap ton of damage. Bungie went full circle and now the weapon is balanced. I still feel it should be reverted to 110 bit this nerf is more than enough even though it will still be able to map and do the dame as it does if you have certain perks.

Well written post but I think the damage fall off will be the big telling point on if the gun continues to see play. Even 80 damage from one shot will still be good in 3v3 and rampage could see two taps in quickplay if you get a decent chain. Charged with light still 2-tapping also gives these weapons a powerful niche where you won’t even need to kill anyone yourself if your team builds to this.

Ehh, i kinda expected Bungie to go the lazy route and just nerf raw DMG (in this case its Crit DMG). My suggestion was to drastically nerf 120's AA/Bullet Magnetism and a little nerf to Damage fall off range, at least then the weapon type wouldn't have been as forgiving as they are now and dare i say, would've been a weapon archetype that requires actual aim to use with these nerfs imo. I'd rather have a high risk, high reward, than a high risk, low reward type of nerf, now its just gunna shift the meta over to another archetype and then people will moan about that being too strong then we're back to square one again.

I was saying before to reduce AA/ target acquisition after a certain distance, increase the severity of falloff, and reduce range by 5-10 meters tops. I don't use 120s often, but even I don't want their damage nerfed. To repeat something I said in another post, but slightly edited: [quote]Regarding the nerf to 120s, nerfing damage is an indirect nerf to range as well. You said you were nerfing the damage so a 10% buff wouldn't enable 2 taps, but that is part of what made them good. Unless you add Kill Clip into the perk pools of 120s, you'll be better off with a 140 like how we were better off with 150s over all the rest. End result? Kinetic 120s except maybe Sturm will drop in usage while Igneous/ Bottom Dollar+Battle Harmony/ Burning Steps skyrockets because they give a 20% buff on top of Rampage, resulting in another 120 nerf and/ or nerfs to the new armors for Titans and Warlocks, which at least for the armor, no one is asking for again. And all of this isn't taking into account that DMT will start off with more damage and is much easier to use, so it's usage is going to increase despite the hip fire nerfs, and since you balance things based on usage, you're going to nerf it again. This nerf to 120s is also not taking into account how it's going to affect Crimson since it's damage should also get hit. Unless it already has a different crit multiplier, or you'll exclude it like you did with the ROF buff it was supposed to get in BL, it's going to get hit hard. I don't know how much damage body shots do, but I'm pretty sure it crits for 30-31 per bullet, so body shots probably hit for 17 damage. 17X1.8=30.6 (31 in game because decimals are rounded up, even TLW's 68.01) If I am right about the body shot damage and the crit multiplier: 17X1.6=27.2 (28 in game), it should do between 82-84 damage. Now add in the range/ falloff nerfs, and you're better off with a Lightweight pulse, so Outbreak and Graviton will probably see an increase in usage and get nerfed because of usage. Nerfing the range and falloff is one thing, but nerfing the damage is another, which as I said is an indirect range nerf, especially when the only problematic ones by your logic are the ones with Rampage, something I never saw drop on any of the kinetic 120s. Simple solution, remove Rampage from 120s since apparently a perk designed more for PVE makes it too strong. Now add in Charged With Light's 20% buff and thats as many 2 taps as you have stacks on top of Rampage, or the armors above and that's 2 tap potential for the next 2-10 seconds. So long as I'm not getting put against a team of spawn killing, team shooting, special spamming try hards, I'm destroying people with Igneous thanks to CWL and Burning Steps, the damage nerf is pointless at best unless you want to disable CWL in PVP and nerf the armors into oblivion, which no one wants.[/quote] All it's going to accomplish is increase the usage of certain weapon/ armor combinations, increase DMT usage, increase the usage of Ace, and CWL builds.