The amount of aim assist on aggressive frame hand cannons at range is so strong that it limits the number of competitive options for the player.
I'm sure everyone has seen it now. It has been on YouTube, Twitter, and if you're like me, tested by yourself.
[spoiler]If you haven't, TrueVanguard and Lucky (kinda old) have videos up.[/spoiler]
If you take a 120 RPM hand cannon and aim at a target in its "sweet spot" range (30-36 meters), the amount of forgiveness you get aim-wise is absolutely ridiculous.
You can aim for the lower gut and get a crit for 90 damage. So you get a massive payoff in the form of the highest single bullet primary damage in the game, without even needing to place your shot well.
On top of that, the guns only need 2 crits and 1 body to get a kill on higher resilience guardians and 1 crit and 2 bodies to get a kill on lower resilience guardians.
And this is before we even talk range or damage increasing perks like rampage.
There's virtually no risk vs reward here. I mean there just isn't. If you get flinched, you're fine. You're allowed a bodyshot, and the aim assist will probably give you a crit anyways. There is no map where the archetype isn't supported by the majority, if not all, available lanes. 120s also deal really, really heavy flinch, so throwing your opponent off the mark is built into the gun.
All this together makes a player feel like they have to use a 120 against every player their skill level or higher who is using one.
Look at 140 RPM hand cannons for comparison. Yes, their cones are forgiving as well, but they require 3 crits, have much steeper damage falloff, and can't two tap without multiple buffs. This means that their TTK can be heavily influenced by flinch and they aren't supported on all maps to the degree 120s are. Therefore, 140s are successfully countered by several pulse rifle and scout rifle archetypes (map permitting) while still being vulnerable to autos if they don't play cover.
140s are possibly the best version of a balanced hand cannon we have seen, and yet 120s break past every one of those weaknesses. They don't really have any of the weaknesses a 140 has or any weaknesses unique to 120s, and I personally think that is an issue.
Hopefully I'm not the only one with this train of thought.
-
6 RepliesAll hand cannons need it. 140s and 180s are just as broken. 120s just have the spot light as the most broken of the 3 architypes. Nerf them all.
-
1 Reply120s hit like a truck at scout rifle range. They need to be nerfed significantly.
-
1 ReplyEdited by DHawk12: 7/1/2021 10:52:49 AM120s are getting nerfed again soon, next week i think.
-
8 RepliesAA on Hand Cannons in general needs to be reduced, they all use the same cones.
-
1 ReplyEdited by Kiro - 13: 7/1/2021 11:05:50 PMWhy not just undo luke smiths flawed vision of converting 150s into 140s. DMT will just continue to dominate as its a 150 HC(150 rpm at hip) but with more damage and range. The 150s had a ceiling of of 33m and that required Range Finder if they did not have RF it caped out at 30m & delt 68 damage per bullet. Any thing the scarab lord touched needs to be reassessed. Preferably out right cleansed from this earth with fire. As we all know fire cleans the sin from the soul and flesh from the bone.
-
2 RepliesDo 140s also have inherently high aim assist?
-
-
3 RepliesThis is a pc problem. Console controller has much more recoil.
-
5 RepliesWell we'll see what they're doing today in the twab.
-
3 RepliesI've literally had moments where I shot someone in the crotch and got headshot numbers with igneous hammer. Its hilariously bad and way too forgiving. I've also had moments with sniper rifles where I shot above someone's head and I get body shot numbers, and that's just infuriating. I'd rather miss the shot than be insulted by the game like that.
-
1 ReplyHow about dmt and why when I shoot a toe it gets a head shot. That's some serious assist Haha and with vorpal omg good bye supers. I literally killed 3 supers in a row last night. The thing is way overpowered.
-
Reduce bodyshot damage too
-
Why they feel the need to coddle peoples aim I don’t get. Console needs some of that for sure but pc not really, maybe a smidge if any but hitting someone’s knees and that’s a headshot is a bit pathetic
-
8 RepliesExactly! They are by far the easiest guns to use besides shotguns. True Vanguard just posted a vid on YouTube where he uses Steady Hand I think to kill a super from pretty far out. He did f are by frame and hit the player in the ankle and it counted as a crit shot🤦🏻♂️
-
Will find out TWAB tonight
-
2 RepliesThought it'd be a great idea to play tonight, saw I had a New Light Bounty and just needed to play one Glory match to completion to finish it I played that one match, got one kill on my head and watched as the other three guys killed us with single taps...from across the map So here I am, in orbit, reconsidering my decisions in life And this is after attempt to get my last three melees in Banner, been stuck on step 4 for two months now? Turns out, Hunter melees are damn near useless Sort of just made me give up on this game, I keep trying to play then just realize the only things I can do are things that I have already done a thousand times previous- anything different is specialized so unless I grind to be able to play them or have gear for them then I've screwed MCC is looking better and better nowadays- even with it's issues it's not at least a toxic isolating experience to play,,, But crucible is slowly draining my zeal after this last update Now none of the scouts are ranged properly to hand cannons and the range of shotguns complete with the speed people rack up on them, it's cute to watch- absolutely knowing otherwise Turns out you also have an advantage if you have the P5 controller and use certain weapons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNdbKLIw5rs
-
1 ReplyI was going to say this sounded a bit like your whining. However you then said you tested it yourself. Holy cow you must be a genius. Given this I will overlook the fact that your parroting literally every youtubers work.
-
Agreed. In my opinion 120s should also play severely worse while air born. They should be more of a mid range dueling weapon than the extremely forgiving, easy to use any range any situation weapon we have now.
-
1 ReplyI’m pvp Buff handcannons in pve
-
16 RepliesEdited by Dredgen Araphel: 6/30/2021 5:59:16 PMIts not the aa that makes 120s oppressive they actually have the least aa its the falloff is almost nonexistent. It already at optimal ranges hit for 96 to the head and 56 body with 120 rpm thats is extremely excessive. At ranges its not supposed to fight in its damage drops to 74 head and 41 body thats still good damage almost the same damage as a 140 which is bad because that means its inescapable at all ranges. Its rpm need to go back to 110 it penalty at range need to be 56 head 30 body and it will be fine. The rpm decrease will force headshots because as it is I have the speed to land 2 body and one head or just 2 head 1 body out of range.
-
Nah not the only one the videos you’ve got this same information from have a similar opinion