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6/11/2021 7:50:30 AM
48
Hand cannon / Shotgun meta is super old
Don't just nerf hand cannons and shotguns, make them so horrifically bad in PVP, that the last 7 years of almost the same meta is erased from people's memory.
This is how everyone's PVP experience is for the last several years.
Titan - Slide, shotgun, slide, hand cannon body shot, slide, shotgun.....slide SHOTRUN...
Hunter - Slide, shotgun, jump, shotgun, dodge, SHOTFUN...
Warlock - slide, shotgun, jump, shotgun, Icarus dash, slide, SHOOTGERN...
The constant hand cannon and shotgun meta in PVP is the same as having nearly every boss in PVE have a stomp mechanic....come on guys, get some new ideas here.
Stop making love to this meta...WE GET IT, YOU GUYS LIKE HAND CANNONS AND SHOTGUNS... it's like listening to your friend in high school talk about that time he scored a touchdown...cool story bro, we're ready for a new story. Your little pinches of meta change (Gnawing Hunger, Recluse....etc.) aren't enough.
Stop making hand cannons and shotguns your CENTER and then periodically straying away from THAT center with other metas. Make HC and SG the outliers and only meta to those with the skill to use them.
PVP weapons are old, your game is suffering from the lack of innovation and direction, I'd be happy to talk about it in person, DM me for my full name, address, or phone number. You guys need some perspective from the community.
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I'm an "older" player here. I'm not in my 40s/50s or 60s, but in my early 30s, approaching mid 30s. My reaction time ain't what it was in year one or year two of Destiny 1. I have to use off-meta weapons such as sidearms and fusion rifles to stay out of close range engagements. I'll slap on a 720 rpm auto rifle when I have no choice and just back pedal. I rely a lot on team shooting, and I get a lot more assists than I do kills. I'll use pulse rifles and scouts with a teammate in duck in and out of cover. For sidearms, I use the Keening, back pedaling or jumping to have a shotgunner miss their part of all of their bullets. I do all the right strategies, but a lot of times the odds are against my favor.
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2 RepliesEdited by michael: 6/12/2021 9:45:17 PMThere are more counters to hand cannons and shotguns now than there ever have been. Dead mans tale beats a hand cannon in time to kill while retaining the same ability to peek shoot with even more range, and grenade launchers are becoming better and better options as special weapons as shotguns continue to be nerfed (quickdraw nerf, quickswap patch soon) and more grenade launchers are added (ignition code, salvo, empty vessel). People hate on me for using a 140 hand cannon and a shotgun, but the lengths at which I could go to use something more cancerous, skillless, and more impossible to play against are vast. Id actually argue that if someone is using a hand cannon and shotgun against you in this meta you are lucky.
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You mean last word and felwinter’s right? 120s have the slowest time to kill in the game and shotguns a pretty inconsistent,also if you don’t like it you can always just put on any exotic fusion rifle with a sidearm and destroy them.
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3 RepliesHand cannons have been around since the beginning and it’s -blam!-ing getting old. The most overpowered guns in the game with the most aim assist that kill you in 2-3 shots at ridiculous ranges. They shouldn’t be competing with pulse rifles or scouts at all
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[quote]Don't just nerf hand cannons and shotguns, make them so horrifically bad in PVP, that the last 7 years of almost the same meta is erased from people's memory. This is how everyone's PVP experience is for the last several years.[/quote] Well, it's always gonna shift back and forth between shotguns and snipers for the most part. Snipers were fun to use for a while, until Bungie nerfed them and then sunset the only sniper in the game that rolled both snapshot and quickdraw. At least back then it was about 50/50, now it seems like everyone just apes every match.
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2 RepliesI don't use hand cannons because they're the "strongest weapons." I use them because to me, they're the most enjoyable weapons to use.
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3 RepliesWe had an auto rifle meta for like a month and then it was back to hand cannons lol. The only weapon type I actively despise tbh
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Bungie could change all weapons to shotguns and no one would be the wiser.
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all they have to do is nerf 120/DMT and then we should probably see alot more variety in primary use shotguns need higher dmg fall off penalty and shouldnt be able to use icarus grip.
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4 Replies> doesn't use top tier weapons > Complains about smart players using top tier weapons I'm ass at pvp, but at least I understand that if I use a 900 rpm smg with a 270 scout I'm going to be stomped. Understand meta (literally stands for Most Effective Tactic Available) and using the meta to your advantage will help you win games. Top tier pvp players fully understand this. If Bungie were to completely nerf shotguns to being useless, top tier pvp players would simply use the next meta weapons, to which you would cry about that as well. Imagine if professional football teams got upset because the other team had better play calling. It wouldn't make sense because play calling is a skill needed to be a good team/player, not just skill and strength. Competition is just as much of a mental ability as it is a physical. So quit crying and get better at the game
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1 ReplyThis can be solved in minutes by making a separate playlist without all the shit meta weapons. Oh wait this will never happens bungie server are only potatoes with cheap wire.
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7 RepliesThe only reason it seems like that is because not everyone has access to adept messenger, and nobody wants to grind for a good gridskipper. Pulses are cracked
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Since bungie likes to push weapon types as opposed to making everything balanced, weapons should be on a locked rotation for crucible. This can be daily or weekly rotations or even rotations based on the number of games played using a specific weapon type. No more than 3 consecutive matches using a weapon type. As for DPS, I despise that a HC shot will do more damage than a scout/auto/sub shot. If i shoot someone with 3 rounds from my auto and they live, I should not die from 1 shot from their HC. 1 bullet needs to equal 1 bullet.
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The problem is that this meta is so popular that if bungie does change it, then a large group of the pvp community cries about it. Remember a few seasons ago when 600 rpms autos were meta. Like 75% of the crucible elitists complained because they didn't want to swap from hand cannons to autos. Going further back we saw something similar with fusions being better than shotguns, but that didn't last long either because the shotgun rushers complained.
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I don't mind the hand cannons so much (except that bungles sunsetting debacle denied me my favorite HC, at least for Iron Banner). But im so tired of shotgun hunter re-turds I can barely force myself to play crucible, even IB which once was my favorite aspect of Destiny, is just a dissatisfying waste of time now. Pretty much lack of satisfaction is all I feel when I can even make myself play.
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3 RepliesNeither hand cannons or shotguns are difficult to counter lol
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Edited by Destiny2Gallows: 6/13/2021 2:03:01 AMI miss stasis. But hey! The supposed hardcore got cbmm and their meta back to make that sweet sweet content no-one watches.
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Complaining about videogames is old too but...you know...here we are.
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A whole lot of people love the handcannon/shotgun meta so it shouldn't be totally banished. My favorite thing is when someone who looooooooves and defends handcannon metas drops 50 and its like 30 shotgun and 10 super.
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22 RepliesEdited by BoogaSuga: 6/11/2021 6:47:23 PMSmgs are nice. Like really nice. Autos are still good. Pulses are cracked. Scouts aren't as dead as people say. Side arms are baby last words. 120s are annoying. 140s are balanced. 180s exist.... I guess? You can definitely use something other than a hand cannon and a shotgun. Snipers aren't worth the effort currently with DMT / 120 spam and winning off flinch 6/10 times. Fusions are definitely viable, but positioning and radar awareness are needed for these.... Which most people don't have.... Sooo... Quickdraw wasn't really an issue. Scavenger mods are. Who cares how fast they pull out a shotgun if they only get 1 green per kill. The " meta " isn't only hand cannon shotgun. The sandbox is pretty balanced minus the obvious outliers such as 120s, DMT, etc. Bigger and more elaborate maps would be nice. New maps.... Not some recycled D1 map.... Because all D1 maps play horrible on D2. Be adventurous, experiment. Quit letting what others use bother you so much. Why does it matter if my house is blue with grey shutters?
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I think it’s just always gonna be the “best” combo to use in PvP because it gives you everything you need. The thing about hand cannons is they allow you to peak corners and take shots at people that take off chunks of health. That alone makes them fundamentally dominant, no matter how hard they try nerfing them. Might as well get used to it because it hasn’t changed since the beginning
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We just need bigger, more open maps.
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Increase body damage. Decrease the giant hit box on 120 hand cannons. Rework flinch so that its effects are rng and not punishing players for aiming at the head by rewarding the players that know this mechanic and actually use flinch to hit nothing but crits while keeping you off target. Get rid of SO MANY KILL PERKS! Or! Make those weapons rolls have a trade off per their stats that in return makes players really ask themselves which roll is more viable. The amount of perks per builds and weapons are creating too many uncontrollable scenarios where there are no downsides. Bungie and “sherpas” think this lowers the skill ceiling... but in reality, this greatly rewards the higher skilled players. A hand cannon with all its kill perks active should have very low range and stability. A weapon based on usability but no kill perks should be far better stat wise. This, with everything else listed, creates that ttk balance and opens the door to ALL players. Regardless.. PvP will still be as stale as the support for it is non existent and the lack of new content. New maps opens the door for more fun to the wider base while the tryhards take time to learn the behaviors of the map and players. This is why new PvP maps are always rotated in.
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Hey Bungie even disguises snipers and pulses as HCs and a HC as a scout. I remember L. Smith even outright stating that his ideal destiny play is running around with a HC. Maybe give a little more flinch to other primaries to make it more difficult to apply that powerful HC damage. 120 HCs were always bad compared to their faster cousins. Would have been nice if they were properly buffed, instead of made as oppressive as they are now. About shottys, I wouldn’t mind if they removed slide and all it’s benefits from the game entirely. I always found that to be a strange concept. That and ofc reigning in special ammo and it’s finder mods.
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1 ReplyHunters will always use hand cannons. That's how we roll. As long as we have a relatively easy to use one shot kill weapon with every present ammo...people who know agressive especially in teams will use those weapons. I think this issue comes up a lot in IB because unbroken/trials tryhards are always high level and they additional advantage stacks with push push push loadouts and especially in fireteams. It's just a terrible mode. And very unrewarding as well. I dont think quickplay is too bad. But the only way to change the "meta" is make other weapons viable...competitive and too be honest although you can counter...its hard to stop a shotgun rusher...especially a good one. So that loadout wont changr.
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Edited by Sweet Lew 88: 6/12/2021 12:39:39 AMThere are only so many combos of good guns. The game is 7 years old, you're going to see metas come and go and come back again if you play long enough.... Lol! Just make your own destiny killer if you know game development so well. I'd love to play it!
