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Destiny 2

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Edited by Dogwood Dingus: 6/9/2021 8:56:33 PM
17

120 Handcanons Are Too Forgiving to Use and Will Ruin the Crucible.

Now that Stasis was rightfully knocked down a few pegs it's time we start looking into other outliers within the strict meta the PvP has. We all know that special weapons are rampant right now, but the thing that many of us do not want to admit is that 120 Handcanons are also a tad too strong. These things defy everything about what it means to be a pistol, they have ridiculous range, they hit like freight trains put into overdrive, there's a ton of options to pick from, and they can have rolls that completely mitigate their drawbacks. This gives them a ton of enjoyment value and character, but in the current state of the game they far exceed every other primary weapon by a large margin. Anyone in a lobby who has a KD higher than 1.5 is likely wielding a 120, 4/6 guardians per team are likely wielding the same weapon archetype if not the same Handcanon itself. Hell even the devs in the most recent Sandbox Livestream said that they are on their radar for "being a little hot." (https://youtu.be/1UgWmS3NTj0 Good highlight video of the sandbox team discussing the future of the game. Around 9:48 is when they briefly mentioned handcanons.) I'm no expert on how to balance things in this game, but it feels really damn cheap to get killed by these things. You could have an overshield and still get killed faster than you could ever kill them. You could have Sweet Business fully revved-up with armor mods giving you better ADS in the perfect and optimal range and your shots will barely cause enough flinch to protect your noggin. You could be *across the map* and still get absolutely bodied by two "well placed" headshots. Not to mention the Aim Assist and Bullet Magnetism these things have which makes them *extremely forgiving,* and I'd know cause my aim is trash and I definitely shouldn't be landing the headshots I aim. (https://youtu.be/1UgWmS3NTj0?t=647, Same vid as before but with a timestamp that takes you directly to their discussion about Accuracy and Aim Assist.) There are many reasons why this a problem and it is a very slippery slope when it comes to game balancing decisions. I do not expect any changes to happen overnight if at all. So hypothetically what are our options, what could we tweak or change that could improve the overall experience without shifting the balance too much? - Reduce the "Aim Assist" - High damage should come at a cost, in the case of these hand canons it should be a drastic reduction in the handholding from Aim Assist features. - Increase Received Flinch when ADSing - Unless you are landing *every* headshot using a bullet hose SMG, AR, or LMG you will lose a fight against a 120 user. The flinch they seem to receive simply doesnt effect them in the slightest. (Take this as a grain of salt, could just be the games natural Aim Assist coming in to save your missed handcanon rounds.) - Increase Damage Falloff - The damage of 120s is fine, you're trading Fire Rate for Damage, but for crying out loud these things are handguns! You should not be able to contest DMT and sniper rifles with one of these things. - Buff other primaries and their bodyshot damage slightly - I just wanna use something that isn't a Shotgun, Grenade Launcher, Sniper rifle, or Handcanon in PvP without feeling like a wet noodle :( (https://youtu.be/1UgWmS3NTj0, A very good video on why/how Primary Weapons could be improved in the PvP sandbox.) Thanks for reading, if you take anything from this post please check out the linked videos. They are very insightful and the creators who made them deserve all the positive attention they can get.

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  • I say reroll all 120s with damage perks and remove them from the archetype, saving that one extra bullet with rampage x1 is completely unnecessary, give the good damage perks to the weak archetypes and give the heavy hitting guns the ability and support perks since their damage is already good

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  • Edited by sum12mezzwith: 6/11/2021 12:02:46 PM
    On console 120s hold a strong oppression over other guns with the paired use of shotguns. If you took 120s out the picture youd see entire archetypes being used more rather than just handcannons. Since the sandbox is in an all around good spot for weapons except 120s and scavenger mods. Reduce the range of 120s to 140s range they will still shine since they can still have there 2 tap potential perks unlike killclip on 140s which still demands 3 headshots. So they would still be highly viable. Just not oppressing entire purpose of scouts. Range.

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    • It already has ruined crucible

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    • They should be brought back to 110 rpm.

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    • Just increase the severity of aim assist falloff outside of intended ranges. This immediately makes them require more precision and skill from the user if they want to duel outside of 40 meters. That suddenly forces all 120 HC fights to happen within their intended range and allows for shorter ranged weapons to close the gap and fight easier.

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      • Hand canons will never receive any nerf that actually changes anything because range or damage nerfs can and have been the difference between something being totally trash and not worth using and completely broken. The same thing has happened to plenty of weapons but hand canons have always been meta one way or another. 180rpms, spare rations and now 120's. Pulse rifles and auto rifles can be broken as well but you need more than 3 bullets to kill. I'm tired of the hand canon meta in all honesty. People got tired of the auto rifle meta real quick but even then hand canons were pretty dominant as well, or I guess I should say hand canon (spare rations again). We've been rotating the archetype of hand canon meta for years but every other weapon type gets maybe a season before its nerfed again. Its so boring...

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        • Good

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        • When they nerf 120’s, It will be a bigger 140 meta. Ease of use and best all around weapon in the game for maps and playstyle.

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          • About 90% of the weapons in this game are to forgiving

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          • The problem isn’t just 120’s, its hand cannons in particular. I don’t understand how some hand cannons have more range than some pulse Rifles. All hand cannons in destiny are also extremely forgiving. I feel their range is the problem honestly

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          • If you look at the most used weapons on Destiny track it is very telling what the meta is. Hand cannons and shotguns. I was surprised to see that of the top 22 weapons used only 6 WERE NOT a hand cannon or shotgun. One of the six was DMT.

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            • Youve woken the hive-mine of handcannon and shotty crutchers incoming salt

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            • They just need less aim assist/bullet magnetism in pvp

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            • 120s just need their damage reduced to about 86 per headshot and they will be significantly more balanced. Negates the single rampage stack to 2 tap, makes damage fall off more impactful, and makes them less forgiving for hitting bodyshots. Handcannons should actually have to be accurate for kills because they already have some of the biggest advantages of any weapon type in the game. By allowing 120s to be so forgiving, you are letting them amplify those bonuses.

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            • Agreed

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            • They already ruined it they have the range of a scout and shoot buss sized bullets

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              Will? They already have

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