[quote]I want to start off with saying, that Bungie has done really well with some buffs and nerfs recently for the sandbox, but something that has perplexed me since DMT has released is bungie's flawed logic and balancing of this weapon. Before Beyond Light shipped, Bungie announced that all 150RPM HCs were going to be changed to 140RPM HCs because "150s always won no matter what". At first the community was upset, but its at least opened up the sandbox to 120 and 140 HCs now. Then they release DMT. A scout rifle, that has limitless range due to the size of the maps in PvP, and with the catalyst, shoots at 150 RPM, and can 2 tap, while only hip firing. The scout rifle is REALLY cool, dont get me wrong, but how can you come out and say, that 150 RPM HCs, that had 30 meters max range, with SEVERE range drop off, were WAY too good that you literally had to REMOVE them from the game (except one, which was a weapon no one used anyway, and still doesnt) to creating this weapon? Just for the people who maybe dont play PvP as much as others, let me explain why this is such an issue at the moment. First i will say that when Aiming down sights, there is nothing wrong with DMT, as it fires at 120 RPM. The catalyst allows this gun to be fired at 150RPM, and from the hip with no hip fire penalties. This is much faster than any hard hitting weapons in the game, which will cause you a lot of flinch, so making it hard to shoot back accurately. However when firing from the hip, you have several advantages. Your FOV is much wider, so it is usually easier to hit shots, and not only that, you have your radar up at all times, so you know if someone is flanking you, when ADS'd, this is not the case. You can also strafe a LOT faster when you are not ADSs, so you are a harder target to hit, as you sway further to the left and right as you strafe. You also have the perk Cranial Spike, where if you hit precision shots, you get a damage bonus, allowing you to 2 tap, from anywhere on the map, at a blistering 0.35 of a second or something like that i dont know the exact time, and quickens reload speed. This is a scout rifle, that has no downsides of a scout rifle. scout rifles should be terrible at close range, but amazing at longer ranges, which is why you would use this weapon on a map with long lanes of sight, like Widows court, Alter of Flame, The Fortress, Mid Town etc. This is not the case with DMT, because of the catalyst, removing hipfire accuracy penalties, anyone pushing you can easily be gunned down from the hip with no penalty accuracy. Again, this is a reason that quick draw is being removed from Astral Horizon and Felwinters Lie, because QD took away the downsides of a heavy hitting shotgun. Then you start looking at what you can pair this with, empowering rifts, titan bubble, inertia override, frontal assault, whisper of hedrons, lion rampants on titans etc. this then becomes an even bigger issue as you havent even needed to proc the bonus on the weapon to be able to 2 tap. this only exacerbates the issues i have already spoken about, but thought it needed to be mentioned. One other thing i want to say, how on earth did you make DMT so GOOD on PC (MnK), and yet, this weapons cousin, The Last Word, is nothing short of garbage compared to it, and both are hip fire weapons? Please Bungie, the hip fire should have a range cap on this, because DMT is becoming the next mountain top of PvP, and for all the good you have done recently, this is that outlier that is starting to eat away at me, and many others in PvP.[/quote] No doesn't need a nerf not in any way shape or form move along

TLDR- wahhh waaaaahhhhhhh

[quote]I want to start off with saying, that Bungie has done really well with some buffs and nerfs recently for the sandbox, but something that has perplexed me since DMT has released is bungie's flawed logic and balancing of this weapon. Before Beyond Light shipped, Bungie announced that all 150RPM HCs were going to be changed to 140RPM HCs because "150s always won no matter what". At first the community was upset, but its at least opened up the sandbox to 120 and 140 HCs now. Then they release DMT. A scout rifle, that has limitless range due to the size of the maps in PvP, and with the catalyst, shoots at 150 RPM, and can 2 tap, while only hip firing. The scout rifle is REALLY cool, dont get me wrong, but how can you come out and say, that 150 RPM HCs, that had 30 meters max range, with SEVERE range drop off, were WAY too good that you literally had to REMOVE them from the game (except one, which was a weapon no one used anyway, and still doesnt) to creating this weapon? Just for the people who maybe dont play PvP as much as others, let me explain why this is such an issue at the moment. First i will say that when Aiming down sights, there is nothing wrong with DMT, as it fires at 120 RPM. The catalyst allows this gun to be fired at 150RPM, and from the hip with no hip fire penalties. This is much faster than any hard hitting weapons in the game, which will cause you a lot of flinch, so making it hard to shoot back accurately. However when firing from the hip, you have several advantages. Your FOV is much wider, so it is usually easier to hit shots, and not only that, you have your radar up at all times, so you know if someone is flanking you, when ADS'd, this is not the case. You can also strafe a LOT faster when you are not ADSs, so you are a harder target to hit, as you sway further to the left and right as you strafe. You also have the perk Cranial Spike, where if you hit precision shots, you get a damage bonus, allowing you to 2 tap, from anywhere on the map, at a blistering 0.35 of a second or something like that i dont know the exact time, and quickens reload speed. This is a scout rifle, that has no downsides of a scout rifle. scout rifles should be terrible at close range, but amazing at longer ranges, which is why you would use this weapon on a map with long lanes of sight, like Widows court, Alter of Flame, The Fortress, Mid Town etc. This is not the case with DMT, because of the catalyst, removing hipfire accuracy penalties, anyone pushing you can easily be gunned down from the hip with no penalty accuracy. Again, this is a reason that quick draw is being removed from Astral Horizon and Felwinters Lie, because QD took away the downsides of a heavy hitting shotgun. Then you start looking at what you can pair this with, empowering rifts, titan bubble, inertia override, frontal assault, whisper of hedrons, lion rampants on titans etc. this then becomes an even bigger issue as you havent even needed to proc the bonus on the weapon to be able to 2 tap. this only exacerbates the issues i have already spoken about, but thought it needed to be mentioned. One other thing i want to say, how on earth did you make DMT so GOOD on PC (MnK), and yet, this weapons cousin, The Last Word, is nothing short of garbage compared to it, and both are hip fire weapons? Please Bungie, the hip fire should have a range cap on this, because DMT is becoming the next mountain top of PvP, and for all the good you have done recently, this is that outlier that is starting to eat away at me, and many others in PvP.[/quote] Its a repeater the hipfire is supposed to be cracked and its good to counter shotguns after you landed your headshots. The gun is good and balanced its a repeater but fires slower than one and 150 scouts its fine. Most people die to felwinters more anything in this game and thats a undeniable fact.

Bud on console /controller it's good but not busted .

If you’re on MnK, I can see how it would be really good, but on the console/controller side the hip fire is actually a lot harder to use than ads because you lose aim assist.

No, DMT is a PC issues and prices that PC was a mistake

As you can see they don't get it yet. That is because we are still in the felwinters 120 meta. Once the nerfs hit and they realize how many are using subclasses that can be in air with full accuracy with a 150 hipfire handcannon that has no inair accuracy issues well it will be as bad as that sounds. Again though this means you have to be able to see around the corner and that isn't a strong suit with the games players or developers.

There’s no issue, nerf Felwinters!

[i]Note: catalyst is the problem.[/i] On mnkb at least catalysted DMT's by far the best primary in the game. Nothing else comes close. Thought 120s were too strong? DMT is better in every category. Like you listed: - single shot damage of a 120 HC, pest peek shooting in the game besides snipers - rpm / optimal ttk of a 150 HC, 0.8 seconds - headshot / bodyshot ratio of 2h1b on the optimal 0.8 second ttk = as forgiving as 120s - practically unlimited range from the hip, around 60-70 meters? - ease of use from having the lowest possible zoom in the game (hipfire) - in-built third eye -perk (radar stays up all the time since dont need to ADS literally ever) - best strafe speed in the game since no ADS movement speed penalty There's just no reason to not use this. Can even get icarus on it with lion ramparts. There's no weakness. It's better than everything else except sidearm TTKs maybe, and those have limited ranges for a reason. If I'm actually playing to win I equip DMT. It's that simple. Only reason I don't have it on right now's that after 2k kills with it (of which less than 20 were with ADS) the gun got so easy it became boring. No gun should be like that. It's on the levels of pre-nerf TLW and LoW. Only reason folks aren't using it because the hip-fire zoom level throws them off at first and they mistake that for the gun being inconsistent (it's not). That wont last, all it takes is a couple of YT videos and folks'll wake up. And then we'll be playing CSGO with barn door hitboxes and extra movement until it's nerfed. And the nerf would be simple. Just reduce the effective hip fire range to something resembling sensible like 30-35 meters and reduce the 150 rpm headshot damage to what 150s should be doing, 68 to the head. Pvp only nerfs, dont touch pve numbers. This'll make it a 3h0b which makes landing the 0.8 ttk a lot harder in practise and disable the 150 rpm 2-taps. They shouldnt exist especially with the in-build damage perk. If you want to 2-tap use the ADS / 120 rpm.

Dead Man's Tale just feels rightly tuned, imho. Even when I get a good streak going with DMT (w/ catalyst), I still get owned by Igneous Hammer wielders, in mid to long range engagements and that's ok! DMT is not TLW, tho it could use a bit of a damage buff in pve.

All your points are valid and worth discussing, especially on the PC side of the game. I’ve seen what DMT can do. All the bots just don’t want to accept it.

The mission and ship is terrible. More endless boring tunnels and hallways. More get a buff, run, flip switches, go through door, rinse and roseate. Dumpster fire of trash

They will let it shine, but then nerf the aim assist eventually. Range is fine and probably where it should be. My guess is they will tone down the range from hip fire but keep the aim assist then adjust the aim assist while ads