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3/31/2021 1:17:12 AM
83
This is not Saladin, Bungie
At the beginning of the season I genuinely valued his point of view and traditionalist mentality, it's worked well with Crows naive yet healthy progressive ideals
They represented two sides of the same coin and Osiris worked as the middle ground who found value in both. Saladin has always been a mournful character, his entire origin story is basically the loss of all his friends and his legacy. He's the only one left to not only preserve his history, but the memory of his friends. He's seen the worst that humanity, the fallen, and the Hive have to offer so his mentality makes sense
But now.. now we've gone a little far. After the proving grounds strike Saladin is not just upset, he's insulting the vanguards leadership, demanding we wipe out the cabal from the solar system, and that we were cowards for not going all out
Bungie... What the hell did you do to Saladin? This isn't him, this isn't how you've written him and it's insulting to his fans that you'd start writing him like this now
It honestly feels like flanderization of what started out as a healthy Yin and Yang between old and new perspectives, into a bitter, hateful, war monger. You can show Crow is right without making Saladin wrong
that's all I gotta say, I've waited since rise of iron for Saladin to actually contribute to the story. But if you're just gonna make him an angry boomer you might as well leave him by the wayside next to Shiro, Efrideet, Lysander, and every other character forgotten or abandoned
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I wouldn't mind having to take him out honestly. Have Efirdeet replace him in IB along with an IB overhaul
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Doesn’t really matter what Saladin character is or isn’t. If the narrative Bungie has is Saladin is a warmongering boomer, than he’s a war lingering boomer. They write him, we’re just observers.
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13 RepliesIf you think this behavior is out of place for an Iron Lord, you haven't been paying attention. Their whole shtick is combat against threats to humanity, and the Cabal aren't exempt just because their last remaining leader is capable of being bargained with. If Caiaitl had the manpower, you'd be sure she'd burn the City to cinders in an instant. Saladin isn't wrong. Overzealous, but not wrong. I'd welcome the moment he challenges Zavala for Vanguard Commander.
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He is right though. WHY would you trust the cabal? They wiped out a large amount of the guardian and human population. I get people love Ciaitel and all but just because she says. I won't do this or I didn't order this... Someone in history also said "I'm not going to do this, and signed a treaty" That person was Hitler... And he proceeded to then do the thing he said he wouldn't. Do not Blindly trust the cabal. Saladin has a point, they are a knife waiting to go into out back.
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1 ReplyEdited by TheArtist: 4/1/2021 11:28:41 AM[quote]Bungie... What the hell did you do to Saladin?[/quote] Saladin has taken a dark turn. Part of it is his resentment over the Vanguard's willingness to work with Rasputin. Despite the fact that Rasputin murdered his friends (his fellow Iron Lords) and has caused the deaths of other Guardians over the years until we fully restored him (Warmind). Part of it is probably his anger and sense of shame that he sat out the Red War (Guardians were willing to fight and die...permanently....without their Light, but he was not.) If Ikora "failed" the test of losing her Light? Saladin got a ZERO. Ikora lost her faith and confidence. Saladin ran off and hid. Efrideet apparently lost such respect for him, that she openly defied his order to stay out of the war...and she fought anyway. The wildcard in all of this is what role might Savathun and The Darkness itself may be playing. You have Guardians openly wielding Darkness power....and the Vanguard tolerates others working with it behind the scenes (Eris Morn and The Drifter). We don't know what unintended consequences this could be creating....and we don't know how far Savathun's web reaches into the Tower and Guardian ranks. What's going on now, in terms of story telling. is that you're being given a different Yin/Yang. With the young (Crow, Amanda Holliday) giving voice to the perspective of mercy, reason, and "just (moral) war". That is we fight only when there is no alternative...and we stop when an acceptable peace can be reached. While Osiris speaks to the perspective of pragmatism or "realpolitik". That is we fight for our own interests. We make peace when it serves our needs. Make wark when it serves our needs...and we exterminate the opposition when they leave us no other practical alternative. While Saladin is the voice of tribalism. His agenda is one of survival, and everything else takes a back seat. So he pretty much takes the stance of "Kill Everything that threatens us and let the Light sort them out." Where you stand on these viewpoints are a function of where you sit in the room. Because each viewpoint has its problems. Compassion can become gullibility and sentimentality, that blinds you to ongoing threats and treachery. Pragmatism can blind you to long term opportunities because they dont' pay off in the short term...and can lead to moral decay. ....and tribalism can lead to brutishness and a complete loss of moral compass. Remember the Hive fight for their own survival. Evil justifies itself by insisting that its ends justify its means.
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I find this development perfectly reasonable for Saladin. The Iron Lords have been shown more and more in recent seasons to be extremely similar to the Warlords they faced. Saladin was always a particularly taciturn and brutal warrior, made more so by witnessing every major disaster of the past millennia, including seeing his entire company die horribly. He has grown war-weary, and yet can fall back only on war; it’s all he knows. Gradually, the decisions of the Vanguard have frustrated him more and more. He hated our dealings with Osiris for years, only coming to tolerate Osiris recently. He still resents our assistance of Rasputin. He tired of the Vanguard for their perceived inaction since the Red War. He sees everything in black and white, humanity or enemy. As a wise Master once said: “Only a Sith deals in absolutes.”
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Huh... People said the same thing about Luke in TLJ. My response? [quote]You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain[/quote]
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% Did he not sacrifice countless innocents to jump a set of Guardians in a village? Always been this way %
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Here's my headcannon story on saladin in D2. Saladin would have been up on his mountain when ghaul stole the light from the guardians. Without the light its pretty tough to get around especially quickly since you can't summon a ship or sparrow and I assume that the Iron Lords Mountain isn't even within view of the Tower. Now what does Saladin do on this mountain? It's my understanding that he maintains the legacy of the Iron Lords, the original risen to fight [i]for[/i] humanity rather than to conquer it, and he is guarding the largest storage of SIVA we are aware of. I get that Saladain is bummed for not helping in the Red War but he's also the only guardian that didnt abandon Earth when we all go to Titan to regroup. I think that's pretty metal and if nothing else would have been a more interesting take on Saladin's going-ons rather than just admit and omit his part in that story. It does seem like Bungie is corrupting Saladin the same way Caiatl's advisor Uman thu was by Savathun. Needless to say I'd be pretty bummed to have Saladin, Humanities First Hero sacrificed to Xivu Arath by Savathun for, story progression
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I personally thought Saladin was being corrupted by Xivu Arath, thus his increasing blood lost.
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He's thinking more like a [u]WAR[/u] Lord and less like an [u]IRON[/u] Lord. But I think I know why. Consider this. We know Shaxx ain't on the up and up right now, along with several other characters like Saint-14. Think about why that is. Then consider how close Saladin is to Shaxx in the Tower. Ain't saying he fell victim like Shaxx, but I know one thing for sure. A bunch of Dark Age crazies would make for some fine weapons.
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1 ReplyWas Saladin this long winded and overbearing?
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5 RepliesCharacter Development. As the world of Destiny changes, so must the characters.
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2 RepliesGuessing you didn't bother to listen to how passed at himself he is for failing to step up and fight the cabal lightless or have you only heard his opinion of what should happen now
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1 ReplyWhile the shift does require a lot of character work Bungie simply failed to put in (Like how Saladin is angrier about us allying with Rasputin this season rather than the SEASON WE WERE ACTIVELY ARMING THE BLOODY THING), it is understandable and at least allows more contrast between the characters. Bungie, if you want to give old Saladin a proper season where this attitude would shine, you bring back Rasputin and SIVA and remind newer players that our alliance with Rasputin follows his butchering of the over a hundred Iron Lords and many other Guardians sent by the Vanguard to establish contact. It could even be a good way to open up more people to a proper alliance with either the Fallen or the Cabal, considering our relationship with the Warmind despite past transgressions. Or whether we should even ally with the Warmind at all. #PlagueGang
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Meh, -blam!- Saladin. Always standing on a balcony jerking himself off about how no one's hardcore like him the days. -blam!-, I turned a worm god into a gun and helped shoot a ship the size of a moon out of the -blam!-ing sky. What did you do this week asshole?
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2 RepliesI was with you till you called him an angry boomer. Now I'm mad.
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5 RepliesI dont know if you havent noticed, but Bungies narrative has always been to push forgiveness. Its a value to imbue their version of anti racism. It has already been done in previous games like halo, where we make peace with the convenant. Destiny is the same. Making temporary allies to fight against the Darkness. Zavala is also wary of Caitl. Enemy of my enemy, is only temporary.
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I feel these undertones were always there but have only come out under such duress. The Iron Lords were born in the desperate climate of the Dark Age and learned to show little mercy to any enemy of Humanity, including would-be tyrants. Weather they be Risen or A.I. in nature. Perhaps there will be more to explore and Crow can help talk to him one-on-one but for now we'll have to wait and see.
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Saladin wasnt the first. Remeber zavala overall standing with rasputin suddenly changed when warming dlc came out. The saber strike shows this with the same old audio. Goes from we want to work with rasputin and flourish etc. To. -blam!- him hes dangerous and cant be trusted.
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2 RepliesToo much politics in destiny atm
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Ive been saying this the whole season he's angry boomer trumper now
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5 RepliesHe has always been like this since SIVA. He has always wanted us to wipe out all enemy races.
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1 ReplyYou know Saladin always been like this it's the same with Siva Saladin want that gone for good like the cabal I don't know why your are complaining
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1 ReplyIts called, Character Development. It helps the story progress and have meaning. Also, Saladin feels bad for not helping in the red war and feels like he has to make up somehow. That somehow to him is to completely wipe out the cabal.
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2 RepliesI think Saladin is amazing right now. He adds disagreement totaly in character and understandable view points. Also you claim that Crow and Saladin is two sides of the same coin. I strongly disagree. Crow first and formost was a risen, he got killed by guardians left and right for his unknown past and ended up working for spider, working side by side with fallen. Crow simply does not like having enemies, he doesen't view a gun to someones head to be desirable. When Amanda Holliday yells her personal vandetta at the cabal, he doesn't criticise her reason but resonate that the enemy can feel the exact same way based on the way 'we' act. What means to be a guardian now again? Race? Ask yourself that. Becuase Crow understand the side of the light better then [b]anyone[/b] right now. But Saladin is not the opposite of that. He is clearly a protector formed by conflict of war. Why would he want to make allies with cabal? Their culture honors war itself by rejecting weakness. He sees the worst in things first of all. Great mentality for a war general. Not a leader.
