Before I begin, it is worth noting that I will be referring to the destiny 1,2 experience on console. PC destiny is an entirely different game all together and shouldn’t be the focus when discussing balancing or game changes in my opinion. I have been a titan main for the majority of D1(a week after initial launch) and all of D2. Something I've come to notice over the years is how the titan class struggles with trying to maintain pvp relevancy/balance while also trying to maintain its identity. I feel like bungie just doesn't know how to balance titans in a game that includes space magic and characters like hunters and warlocks. Usually, titans are an average class when it comes to pvp competitiveness with any attempt to make them more relevant resulting in absolutely oppressive exotics/supers/abilities. This oppressiveness has given the class a bad name and has made the entire community despise any buffs or adjustments that might go in their favor specifically. While I can understand this to some extent, it becomes quite aggravating when something is OP for a few weeks on titans, while hunters/warlocks have OP builds (exotics/abilities/supers) lasting whole seasons or longer. What I am asking for specifically is for a rethinking of what it means to be a titan and the ideas focused on when adjusting/making subclasses for it. The current idea of the titan being a “hurdur monke” that punches everything isn't working out too well and limits titan potential. There is a reason that the best subclasses atm for titan either completely throw direct punching out the window, or make it incredibly broken. In a constant meta of shotguns, HCs, and stasis spam (even post nerf), a titan’s primary means of staying viable is the behemoth super and new movement abilities. This in itself is a double-edged sword because it perpetuates the issue of stasis itself and also plays back into the same old issues of titans throughout the history of destiny. The issue being one or two things that make them viable/OP at a time with mostly everything else about the class feeling kind of meh/limiting in comparison to the other character types. In conclusion, I would love to see the titans overall design divert away from the classic directly punch everything mindset. Their abilities can still focus on close quarters combat, but maybe make it where they don't have to get in their opponents face to even begin to use it? Some of my favorite subclasses for titan are the ones that do something a bit different than the standard formula. In particular, middle tree arc, middle tree solar, and stasis, do a very good job at creating a new way to play that can be very rewarding if you put the time in to learn them. Maybe take some inspiration from street fighter or even earth benders from avatar lol. There are more than enough creative movements that can be used for abilities other than waddling up to someone and punching/kneeing them. Thanks for reading and let me know your thoughts below! Looking for constructive conversation or criticism. Edit(1): So after some discussion in comments, I think it is worthwhile to add what things were discussed that I think should be adjusted/discussed for titan improvements. The class ability (the only good one that didn't get nerfed to uselessness), while useful in pvp, does nothing else remotely close to the class abilities of hunters/warlocks. Hunter dodge is a get out of jail free card that has useful side effects and exotics. Warlock rifts are both useful in their own way and also have exotics to complement different playstyles. Titans have a wall that does nothing else on its own (besides damage ppl that walk through it). Exotics that interact with the barricade are very lackluster and overall useless (except for citan ramparts). Titan passive perks heavily rely on getting a kill with an ability or super (usually melee) to get any useful side effects going. While there are some perks that function similarly to this for warlocks/hunters, they aren't the bulk of their perk options and usually have much cheaper costs for activation. I think the best analogy for this is perk options on weapons. Do you want perks like rampage/kill clip that are only useful after a kill, or do you want snapshot/quickdraw that give immediate benefits? In a 1v1 scenario, the perks that give immediate benefits are going to win more on average assuming equal skill level from both players. lastly, resorting to making titans faster/bulkier (via overshields) doesn't work. It just perpetuates the same old issues they've always had and makes the community despise them until it gets nerfed into uselessness. Not to mention that people will use said scenarios constantly as scapegoats for any situation that involves character balancing. "Oh you are wanting a buff/nerf for x!?!?!? but what about OEM, bottom tree striker, behemoth, hammers (apparently ppl r still salty about this even tho its d1 meta??)". What about all the low level cumulative advantages from passive perks for warlocks/hunters that basically give them free kills? I'll be the first to say when something is broken on the titan class, but for whatever reason, discussing anything against hunters (and warlocks but nowhere near as often) is completely off the table unless its painfully obvious (stasis)? If people want the game to get a pro league or grow in any capacity, its members must be able to realize when there is an imbalance. Otherwise why not just make a space shooter cowboy simulator where everyone is a hunter? Edit(2): A common trend in the conversations I have had thus far include the idea that titans are always stomping in 6v6 lobbies. I think a good way to explain this is to go back to the weapon perk analogy I mentioned previously. In a 1v1, gun perks that give immediate benefits will win more on average over gun perks that require some setup (rampage/kill clip). In a situation where the setup perks are active, they will beat the immediate benefit perks more on average. So imagine hunters/warlocks are the the immediate benefits perks while titans are the setup perks. This is why 6v6 can be so easily dominated by titans. It is almost a guarantee that scrubs will be in the lobby and any good titan will quickly focus in on them to farm for super and perk activations. In 3v3, there are no scrubs in higher end gameplay which means less perk uptime on titans trying to compete with high perk uptime from the other classes. Stasis addressed this and gave titans more neutral game to work with, but went kinda overboard. If they could bring in behemoth to a point that is much more fair, I would prefer that bungie go in that direction more for game design (assuming they can release it without being overcranked). In addition to this, cutting down on the rampage/kill clip mechanics of titans could actually balance them in 6v6. I am currently debating on what would be the best route to discuss specific changes for the titan and am open to suggestions. Areas of focus would be on the barricade and reducing the number of perks that rely on killing with a melee/grenade/super to bring them more in line with the other classes. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they used the stasis subclass format for future subclass changes so maybe think about what perks/mechanics could correlate to that format. Edit(3): Post for discussing subclass changes: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/258609676?sort=0&page=0 Edit(4): Yeah so I have options typed up for each subclass, but it looks like the discussion has died so ill be stopping here. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the convo. If anyone would like to read it, let me know and ill figure out a way to post it.