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Edited by Signor Sghi:
3/16/2021 11:56:04 PM
29
Win trading exposes shady trials business
TL; DR don’t blame win trading, blame what caused it: gatekeeping and all the shady business behind trials.
Hot take here, two weeks ago the whole win trading situation led to disabling trials and people were upset about it, but who are these people?
Sure, not all of them are guilty of what i’m about to say but still, it’s well known now that trials has a shady business behind it. People asking money for the following activities:
- recoveries (against ToS),
- carries (still against ToS, if behind a payment),
- cheats/cheaters (against ToS),
- ghost lobbies (against ToS), exc. (You got the drill)
This whole business not only is toxic since it actually gatekeeps lesser/average skilled players from actively partecipating in trials, it fuels a sense of dissatisfaction in these players that first led them to cliffjumping for the weekly bounty, and now brought them away completely from the MM pool as they moved into the win-trading casino.
If win trading wasn’t a thing, they probably wouldn’t care about trials either, and only cliffjump once in a while if there’s a solid reward at 3 wins.
Now, since average players left the pool, a lot of people who still play trials have found that they got way sweatier, and accuse win-trades for it. Those who once farmed lower skilled player are now getting farmed on, and obviously thay don’t like it. Do you see the point now? Being constantly the little fish leads to avoiding the gamemode and if there’s an escape route, you are more likely to take it. And the circle starts again.
Trials need a HUGE rework, MM-wise and core-wise. Some changes have been teased in the state of D2 2021, but not much was said.
A way to make it less easy for people to play trails from a different hardware (ie: link the console/pc to the account, one can change 2 times a year), a proper anti-cheat, monitor the LFGs (Guaranteed flawless msg on bungie 💸) and monitor sites (if you google destiny carry you’ll find a disgusting amount, even ads on yt) to take them down.
Switch to CBMM or hybrid CBMM/SBMM and put a flag on people who went to the lighthouse this week: if a member of the fireteam is flagged, they will only compete against other flagged members(account, not character).
These are just suggestions, but I’m sure that if the main cause of people switching to win trades gets addressed, trials can really be the pvp pinnacle activity that players deserve.
Thanks for reading and bearing with any typos or grammatical flaws.
Also, if you’re interested in checking some good trials rework idea [url=https://www.bungie.net/it/Forum/Post/258455291/0/0]you should definetly go check out the work StormEX set up[/url].
Edit: Darkside Royality just made a video talking about this very same thing, [url=https://youtu.be/CaXmWWRsejg]give it a shot[/url]!
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I really like the flag idea. But it’s nothing new. This idea was also discussed during D1. But nothing ever changed.
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9 RepliesTrials is broken...and it is broken and unstable by design. D1 Trials worked because loot kept weaker players in the play list, and the player pool large enough to keep cheating to a tolerable level on console. But Bungie never fixed the cheating problems in console....the the move to pc opened up a whole new level of cheating that Bungie was utter unprepared to deal with. Then to punctuate the self-sabotage, Bungie drank their own Kool-aid about the exclusivity of the game mode, and stated only rewarding wins. So now th whole house of cards has collapsed on itself, and the game mode is being exposed for the poorly designed, predatory activity that it is. People would rather break it, or cheat it, than subject themselves to actually playing it.
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1 ReplyWin trading exposed the lazy people whom don't want to earn anything, nothing more.
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I mean...there's nothing to expose really. Everyone already knows about all of this. And still, Bungie has yet to do anything about it. Hopefully the Lord and Savior Joe Blackburn will sign some executive orders and get Trials back in shape.
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1 ReplyWin-trading is just as bad as all cheating. Though I believe all should be dealt with and eliminated as options in a mode meant to be fighting on somewhat of an even level
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3 RepliesWell said. Minus some grammatical things. Overall agree with the general concept.
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1000% Only thing competitive about the mode is the pricing.
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8 RepliesSkill based match making would solve all of this. But we’re not ready to talk about that.
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5 RepliesD1 was better: - a few streamers (realkraftty) - more players, over 1 million - no toxicity - no recovs (maybe a few) - no win trading - no stasis
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1 ReplyWell written. Bungie really needs to pay attention to this.
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1 ReplyRecoveries are even worse
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12 RepliesLets be honest here, 96% of win traders would never of stepped foot in trials in the first place so no it isnt whats broken trials or even affected it. Secondly, if the weapon pool was the same as last year i guaran damn tee you no streamer would complain. Its the usual only the top 0.01% deserve nice weapon ideology that has ruined this damn game. Rich get richer poor get poorer. Most likely if igneous wasn't in the pool lucky10p would of never exposed it. Streamers want the scrubs in trials so they can pound and stomp them and look good to thier audience and now they arent they are gdtting beat so whahhbhbbhh win trading is bad. Blow it all out your arse, get a real job abd grow the F up.
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You wish I found the cheater happily defending win trading.
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Excellent post, spot on
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1 ReplyThis is absolutely spot on in every way and bungie needs to see this, I encourage upvoting for this.
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13 RepliesI have a idea. Make trials a monthly event like iron banner. Have it as matchmaking just in case you can't make a team yourself. You go in same as normal however you only need 7 wins total to go to the lighthouse. And on each victory you get a piece of armor or weapon at random. There is still card based matchmaking however you can't reset your card until you get 7 total wins. Lighthouse reward will let you choose what you want. If you want a helmet boom Helmet. If you want the hand cannon boom hand cannon. Exactly like DSC once you kill Taniks. The lighthouse chest will guarantee 60 plus stat roll armor and weapons will be adept. I know many talented players who would like to go to the lighthouse but just can't get 7 in a row. Hopefully you can at least consider this as an option. Because I can almost guarantee you that everyone would actually play if it didn't require 7 victories in a row as well as matchmaking.
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5 Repliesthe streamers have a weird taste for what rewards means they all support 12 ppl raids but act completely opposite when it comes to win trade, logic is a funny thing when streamers get to decide what is right and fun and what isn't
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8 RepliesJust been sent a screenshot of the Tweet from Trials Report Since trials is cancelled, we don't see any harm in releasing this anymore. So far this weekend: PC: 32,500 Lighthouse visitors - 10,465 without a kill (32%) Xbox: 4293 Lighthouse visitors - 1471 without a kill (39%) Playstation: 7296 Lighthouse visitors - 2741 without a kill (35%) Stadia: 621 Lighthouse visitors - 323 without a kill (54%) This is a truly broken format. It's time to call it a day
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2 RepliesQuick question: If all of these things that you have listed are all against the TOS,... ...what is being done to those people who do it? If the answer is ‘nothing’,...does that mean the TOS is merely lip service?...or does it mean that Bungie simply reserves the right to enforce their policy only whenever it benefits their bottom line? I don’t understand.
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1 ReplyHere's the thing about trials... it exists so that it can be gate kept. By the very nature of its design. It was intended to be what rewards the highest skill players for being that high skill. As it currently stands, there is nothing else in destiny that does that for pvp players. By that merit, there have to be some things that those players get that the average population can't, or the mode has failed at it's one goal. That doesnt mean, however, that trials cant do things to appeal to players of average, or even low skill. When I was first starting out in destiny pvp trials still felt worth it because there was a high chance I could get decent rewards from the silver and gold bounties. The reward structure, as it currently stands, is [i]only[/i] rewarding to those higher skilled players. If you can't make it to 5 wins, you just go in for your bounty and leave, no other reason to stay. That needs to change. Bungie needs to make the loot rain in trials. That is the only thing that could keep the average player in the playlist without completely destroying what it was meant to be.
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1 ReplyWhile I agree there's a ton of shady shit going on, especially on bungies end(why now disable trials indefinitely when it benefits players, yet let cheating disconnects and other -blam!-ery run rampant for years) Isn't trials supposed to "gatekeep" low skill players? Isn't that... Idk... kinda the point? Low and average skill players aren't gonna get to the top tier content. Especially if there's less players playing.
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1 ReplyEdited by Veg 317: 3/14/2021 7:29:42 PMThere only mad because streamers cant gate/monetize trials with win trading.
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They can't stop it. People will always take the easiest route to get what they want, especially if they can afford it. The only way to ever stop it is remove all rewards from Trials and turn it into a ranked competitive mode for tiered emblems or some other garbage that tryhards in this game can fight over instead of bring good in a pvp game the general gaming community actually takes seriously.
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11 RepliesThe fact that so many content creators are saying wintrading and g lobbies are cheating hawk how disconnected they are from the majority of the player base. And before anyone says I’m mad because I g lobby/win trade, I’ve never done either.
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14 RepliesRule 1: Don't let people reset their cards. Every card must be played till the end before you can reset. (Until you fail to get Flawless) Rule 2: Once Flawless at the weekend; you will be matched vs other Flawless Teams only until next weekend / weekly reset. Rule 3: "If you say Flawless search times will be too long" than just disable rule 1 and 2 for the first 24 hours of the weekend. Rule 4: Bring the first three rules into the game and the problem will be solved for the majority part of the community. No problem Bungie. I like to help you out. :-))))) However I can not help you with a solution to take care of cheaters. I am not an IT-networker :-(
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2 RepliesWhen trials was initially released, i loved it, i don't consider myself a sweaty player, far from it, but in it's early days it was entirely possible to go flawless, admittedly it took time but at least the playing field was fair. I managed to go flawless twice, but once the cheating dipshits came along the whole experience was ruined for everyone. The problems with cheaters and paid carries has been an issue for a long time now, and although i do believe bungie have been and are actively trying to combat cheaters, they have never touched on paid carries, which imo is counterproductive. I don't envisage trials being scrapped indefinitely, there are a lot of well known streamers out there who give bungie free advertising for destiny, a massive fan base to potentially reel in, with no other really relative content to stream on destiny what reputable streamer will try and engage his/her followers with a raid, strike or just normal crucible, they have to keep the viewer count up and with anything other than trials i don't see that happening.
