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2/2/2021 8:55:05 AM
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Keep hearing ppl say that weapon retirement is necessary and worked in other games
Has it? never worked in any game actually similar to destiny, not in Anthem, not in division, not in borderland, not in warframe
Final fantasy and wow aren't that close to this game really
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It would be fine if they introduced as many or more weapons than they sunset, and they were NEW or D1 weapons. The problem is, they sunset so much, introduced too little, and a lot of what they introduced is D2 gear the exact same as the old versions.
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8 RepliesIt works in traditional MMO games as they normally have a ton of loot/gear. Plus gear sets with real perks add depth. In Destiny it's still a FPS at its core and the loot pool is so shallow you can crack a skull. So here it isn't working at all. Games like Borderlands again throw loot at you so you never really get attached. Plus you can straight farm bosses for specific drops as much as you want. Again this is missing from Destiny. It doesn't work here..
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It's a lie that pro sunsetter people like to spread.
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1 ReplyIt worked in D1. Provided, there were complete vendor refreshes with each expansion drop, and plenty of new, more-than-viable gear to grind for, not just rehashes and reissues. Sunsetting wouldn't have even been an issue in D2 if Bungie hadn't Brita'd it and implemented it in the worst way possible.
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2 RepliesIt worked in D1 because they added enough new guns to back it up. It fails in D2 because they retired hundreds of guns only to add around 30 new weapons.
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Borderlands just sunsets by releasing the next borderlands game, as all games should... it also forces a build reset every time it increases the level cap, which sucks. Infusion would be rad in borderlands. Idk if BL3 has it at endgame, not quite there yet. Warframe just... they vault stuff all the time, but you can still use the vaulted stuff at full power if you got it beforehand. Plus, the endgame grind is by upgrading mods, and finding new ones. No real item levels iirc (haven’t played in years though, so maybe that changed for the worse). The mmo’s can’t even compare to d2 imo. It isn’t sunsetting or vaulting in ff14, it is simply this item is stronger in every meaningful way, so replace the old crap. Replacing the old armor changes nothing about your gameplay or rotation, it just makes your character deal more damage or take less damage. The only comparable stat is skill speed, which you only need enough to make your global-cooldown synchronize better with your off-global-cooldown abilities. Everything else influences damage values without changing anything about how it feels to play. It’s both bearable on ff14, and incredibly boring as well. It is what it is, though. Until sunsetting reaches its final form, they won’t be able to tell if it is actually a failure. By then, I hope destiny actually has some legit competition in the market, so that they can more clearly gauge how poorly received some of their decisions would be if players had anywhere else to go.
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1 ReplyEasy because no other game does sunsetting, for the sole reason its completely unessesary, the developers of those games arent Lazy like Bungie and Luke Smith are, they actually design enticing Loot thats worth chasing and switching over to use, the only game thats actually done Sunsetting, and it was once, is Division 2 last March when the Warlords of New York Expansion dropped.and even then it was optional, as you buy the expansion and have to trash youre old gear but it wasnt hated because it wasnt forced on everyone and for those who did get hit by it it didnt matter since you were going to be getting newer up to date gear since the expansion also increased the Level Cap from Level 30 to Level 40, so all youre level 30 gear become obsolete as soon as you got a Lvl 31 piece during youre story playthrough and first level, and even then you got so much out of it, with the SHD Leveling system, the new Seasonal System. Ect. out side of that 1 time in Division 2, No other game ever does sunsetting.
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50 Replies[quote]never worked in any game actually similar to destiny[/quote] It works in Destiny 🤷🏽
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1 Replyit worked in d1 because there was more than enough gear to replace what was lost. Now? Not so much. Exotics are fine and being able to infinitely use them is great and all, but what we need is viable replacements for weapons as they get retired, either because the loot source for them isn't available anymore or because the loot pool for, say, Iron Banner was changed around and updated. Most people make the comparison between Final Fantasy and WoW simply because there's ALWAYS better gear to get. Not so much in recent installments mind you, but Final Fantasy 7, 9, or 10? Definitely a reason to grind my tail off to get the materials needed to either forge myself new weapons or kill specific enemies to get those weapons. And the builds for those characters? there's a meta, same as destiny, but it's way more than 'how fast can I move and how quickly can I get my grenade to recharge so I can use shatterdive' Bungie's mistake was not adding in enough weapons to replace what we're all comfy with. Sunsetting, while crappy imo, had the potential to bring more with it, but... it didn't happen this season.
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[quote]Has it? never worked in any game actually similar to destiny, not in Anthem, not in division, not in borderland, not in warframe Final fantasy and wow aren't that close to this game really[/quote] Final Fantasy has stats. Effectively built in power creep. And importantly, it doesn't do random roll grinding of a tiny piece of content for days to months
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8 RepliesStill this....yawn! It's done and not being reverted. Accept change, adapt and move on....easy!
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1 ReplyEdited by Lull9: 2/3/2021 11:54:22 AMDestiny guns never actually do more damage than old ones aside from artificial light levels. It is EXACTLY like a treadmill. Running and running to try to stay in the same spot forever.
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It only ever works when said developer is able to give players as much content as they take away. When bungie announced sunsetting, everyone got their hopes up thinking bungie was going to remove 90% of content and get 90% of content worth of new things. I and other true destiny veterans knew better, I’m not surprised. You guys are suckers for believing sunsetting was going to work knowing well the routes bungie takes with this game. Bungie has a very long list of pissing off players or screwing them over, I don’t know why anyone thought it was going to be different. The split from Activision made bungie confirm we will never get an expansion as large as forsaken, is that not enough to open the eyes of you fanboys? Sunsetting in destiny doesn’t work
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3 RepliesYou do know it literally worked in destiny 1... right?
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It worked spectacularly in d1, which is why I was in favor of it in d2. And then they sh!t the bed and it's complete ass in this game cause we all know how bungie is "if it aint broke, completely rework it and change everything that made it work in the first place"
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5 Replieswarframe has never sunset anything we still got game modes no one plays any more in the game like: archwing missions (which was released in 2014 and people stopped playing it in 2015) which is finally being removed for railjack missions which you can still use your old archwings in or defection, hijack, Infested Salvage and the Grineer Rathuum and the conclave (pvp i think 5% of the playerbases play pvp)
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4 RepliesIt depends on how it's done. Destiny keeps giving us gear that we can upgrade to a certain level, 3 seasons to be exact so far with the only exceptions (though not exactly such because they'll still be capped unless you get a new one each season) being raid weapons. Most games that have sunsetting do so by increasing the level cap and not letting you bring the gear with you. While they're two completely different games, Diablo 3 did it fine in Reaper of Souls when they raised the level cap from 60 to 70 and you were almost immediately replacing your legendary items for rare items. However, you could quickly get it back with significantly higher stats. In Destiny though, your gear is your level, and you're able to artificially increase it by upgrading the same gear for the next 9 months. Other games implement sunsetting usually by giving gear that is at a higher power level. Bungie could literally just make a hand cannon with a new design and be the same thing as Kindled Orchid or Spare Rations with a few numbers switched around for example with newer perks/ combinations each season and no one would complain because they would immediately be able to grind a good replacement each season. That is how sunsetting should be, by the time it's been sunsetted, you've likely gotten a good replacement. Unfortunately, after my Spare Rations got hit this season, I switched to Old Fashioned, but it's getting hit next season and I have yet to get a good kinetic legendary HC this season. The Seventh Seraph revolver has a stupidly low drop rate, Dire Promise has s*** rolls, and the only 120 HC left is unobtainable. I really hope one of the ritual weapons next season is a kinetic HC with good rolls.
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It is not bad only I think Bungie sunsetted a bit too much. Also weapons and armor that you can still get in the game should never be sunsetted. I just wish they added like Classic Quick Play and that this is the only game mode where you can use sunsetted gear. And of course also a classic option in private matches. It is now not really a big issue yet but it could be that a sunsetted weapon is really dominant in Crucible and not accessible for new players. It can ruin the experience for new players who love to play non sweaty normal crucible.
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9 RepliesEdited by Frèák: 2/2/2021 8:23:47 PM[quote]Has it? never worked in any game actually similar to destiny, not in Anthem, not in division, not in borderland, not in warframe Final fantasy and wow aren't that close to this game really[/quote] Ironically, it worked in D1. And they even SunSet Exotics back then. Just because we didn’t like it doesn’t mean it didn’t work. It worked because HoW and TTK brought us a lot of weapons. It failed now because of how they implemented it in Beyond Light. With very few weapons period.
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4 RepliesI dunno, almost EVERY WoW player i've talked destiny to seems to agree that theres a HUGE loot similarity...
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17 RepliesExcuse me but it works -blam!-ing great in Warframe. Granted it's really not at all the same but still, the vaulting process is an essential aspect of keeping the loot pools in Warframe reasonable.
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1 ReplyBorderlands you leveled out of the gun and could go back and get it again if you wanted to.
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in wow its not important as your gear is mainly just a number (+ you can transmog it) you have no different "feeling" with this or this wow weapon. but in a fps, guns fees different, thanks to recoil, sound, sight etc... so you can "miss" this weapon when they decide to remove it
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Edited by Astrosa: 2/2/2021 11:57:59 PMI like how people say sunsetting is like warframes vaulting No not even close In warframe after a set time our primes get vaulted Well what does this mean? In destiny terms it means your new future engrams won’t have it in loot pool -You can still use it -it’s still useful -it can still drop from players that do have pre vault engram -it can still be traded So yeah no where close to sunset, even more so if bungie brings back everything they vaulted but you have to farm for a new one. If something became un vaulted in warframe and made the ones that people already have useless making everyone re farm, the game would die. On the spot Like boom headshot
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16 Repliesit’s literally baked into Borderlands, the same fire Lyuda i get in my first normal mode isn’t the same one i’ll have in OP 10. Division having gear score increases help keep it alive along with meta shifts (-blam!- predator and tactician metas) Warframe has rivens, the worst RnG system in gaming that is nerfed and buffed the same way bungie does (looking at data)
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1 ReplyI think they had to do something, having made guns like revoker, mountaintop, recluse which were just so dominant. It had got really stale. Yes, people will claim they mixed up their loadouts and didn't need their hand forced. Perhaps they did but those players are a rarity because I can remember the 4 times in the last 3 seasons when I got sniped by anything other than revoker or beloved. In raids, I doubt I ever had a clear without at least two people using mountaintop, recluse or both. At one point everyone would have been running Swarm of the Raven as well. With hindsight, sunsetting should have been focused on those outliers. Doing 8 seasons at once has proven to be a huge problem. For me personally, I'm not against the sunsetting of some weapons but Bungie has handled this so, so badly. I don't agree with sunsetting armour. It just seems they don't know what they are doing. Buff, nerf, buff again. Stasis abilities out of control. Buff for rockets when linear fusions are so obviously more in need. Hand cannons utterly ridiculous. Stats for trials at the moment are just comical, no kinetic weapon outside of hand cannons in the top 10. They are making such a mess of it.
