I wanted to write this topic sharing a very interesting discussion I had with some buds I have been gaming with for a few years now, but all no longer play D2 (I am the only one left playing at this point). We still interact on a regular basis via raiding in other games so believe if you want for fabrication. Before I begin let me say this is going to be completely focused on PvE. They aren't PvP players in any game really so keep this in mind. These are the top reasons why they all have left D2 via disappointment in the game. 1) Lack of long term goals. In PvE players have 0 long term goals in Destiny 2. No, ritual weapons are not long term goals. Long term meaning reasons to get on for over 2 months somewhat consistantly to work towards. The raids aren't the PvE end game in Destiny 2, its GM nightfalls, which are counterproductive as there is no reason to ever do them, even with the arrival of 'flawless' versions coming next season. These are season to season goals, not an ENTIRE EXPANSION GOAL. 2) End game is not good. GM nightfalls by design are disappointing, unenjoyable, and not worth grinding for. With the only changes to them being negative modifiers, power capping, and champion spam they provide 0 enjoyment in actually doing them. They are just pain. End game doesn't just mean pain, it also means a challenging, demanding, but creative experience. GM nightfalls need meaningful changes to them to warrent being 'end game'. If you have to be selective about picking GM nightfalls then those nightfalls need changes exclusive to them that change up encounters, and allow more flexibility in builds besides just cram as much damage mitigation so you don't get one shot by a random sniper. Champions are not good enough. 3) Lack of Raid support. Now we are pretty heavy leaning raiders. Destiny doesn't support raiding in its current form. In D1 there was the bare minimum support for raiding. Hard modes with minor changes to encounters with exclusive gear only in hard modes. Hard modes were designed for the end game power which meant you couldn't just blow right through it as a joke until a year or more later on. D2 now has 1 raid difficulty that was argued to be the only 'true version'. However, this 'true version' is nowhere near complex, demanding, nor even built around end game players. Its a stepping stone of progression towards GM master nightfalls after day 1. Watch a youtube video and you can clear a raid in a few hours. That isn't normal. I know some think it is, but it really isn't. Raiding is known historically to be an investment, which is why most games have raiding as the end game to be a reason you invest into playing and improving in the game both as a player while also improving your gear. At this point you could almost make raiding in D2 matchmade. More difficulty levels, more changes in those difficulty levels for encounters to expand them, let raids be the end game for Destiny again. 3) Armor 2.0 feels great, but the game seems to play as if we are still using Armor 1.0. Investing into builds, stats, min maxing, masterworking, or creativity for PvE is almost 100% a waste of time. The entire game outside of 1 activity in PvE requires 0 investment into your character outside of power. GM nightfalls which only allow a defensive/survival build. The RPG additions only serve PvP. Build future content around the creativity of armor, and give us more creative build mods to change things up that are permanent additions to the game. 4) Sunsetting is FINE. However, it was too rapid/sudden and Bungie has been unable to support the idea of it due to the lack of new gear replacing the old. Relying on reissues rather than brand new gear is not sustainable, nor enjoyable to players. 5) Lack of creativity in new activities. It feels like every 'new' thing Bungie makes is just a rehash of something they have already made with no improvements. Much of the new activities are half baked instead of fully fleshed out with depth, made for the super casual playerbase to play for 2 hours before they are done, while everyone else feels burnt out in 2 sittings. There are other issues that they spoke about but these were the top reasons my group spoke about why the left D2. It feels like its stuck in the mud regardless of how much Bungie swears they are changing the game, only for it to be in minor ways instead of major shake ups or creativity.