You want perfection. Humans make mistakes. One of which is a lack of foresight when things get complicated or emotional. It is unreasonable to expect people not to make them. Only reasonable that they fix the ones they make.

Not to mention you literally don't address any of my points. I think they're pretty valid. I don't expect perfection. Perfection to me would be having a system that lets me pick my roll and lets me buy it or work toward it via a quest or something like that, and no sunsetting because Bungie would know how to balance. I don't actually expect this because they clearly have a hard time managing all their weapons. I think not committing the mistakes I mentioned is a pretty reasonable expectation for a game company.

Actually I did. You are simply missing the forest for the trees.

Dude stop with the pseudo intellectual phrasing. I can't take you seriously. And no you didn't. You didn't try explaining the True Prophecy thing. And what about how they keep patching the good bugs immediately but keep Telesto disabled for like an entire season? Or how they're still charging for useless expansions? Or how the new player experience is nearly non-existent? Or how a lot of catalysts are unfinishable right now? Or how tokens have been useless for the past year or two yet they kept adding new armor nobody will use? Or how they're removing Put of Heresy's masterrworked loot, removing the only remaining part of the Moon worth anything? Or how Beyond Light requires Forsaken to complete basically requiring you to pay double for a useless expansion? Or how they gutted 80% of the game? Or how they made the archetype they excitedly buffed this season almost unobtainable? Or how Trials weapons that take ages to farm will be gone in two seasons? I'll admit the last few are more inconveniences than core incompetency issues but any person who plays the damn game should get my point.

I’m out. I’m clearly trying to reason with someone who simply wants to vent. Go ahead. Count me out.

No? The -blam!- are you on. You can't tell me what I want and miss me with that pseudo intellectual bull. If my doctor made a mistake during surgery I'd sue them. If Walmart gave laptop without a charger I'd return it and get another. If my food has hair in it it's within my right to send it back to be remade. What's wring with wanting a proper product? I'm not a fortune teller. I didn't sign up for this and how no way of telling it'd end up like this. I'm also not a beta tester for the game. But I sure as hell have paid for the past couple of seasons and the past 3 expansions. I've been defending Bungie since season of Undying. Bungie isn't immune to criticism and it has nothing to do with perfection. I have the right to complain about something I feel is half baked.

If a doctor makes a mistake, the patient may be crippled for life or even die. If a software dev makes a mistake you are simply inconvenienced until they can get around to correcting it. What I’m “on” is called [i]perspective.[/i] ....and [i]patience.[/i] No one set out to make these mistakes intentionally. They weren’t the result of negligence or fraud (CDPR). No one is going to die or be permanently crippled. Those are the situations that I save my anger for. I’m old enough to know that if I fly into a rage about something like this? I’m going to spend most of my life mad...and accomplish little more than making myself miserable with it.

It’s not about Bungie making a mistake. I understand why people are mad about sunsetting. If you can’t see that Destiny 2 has been on a steady decline for the last 2 years now then I don’t know what to tell you. To me all of the moon armor and all the weapons should still be farmable up to 1410. The same thing with the dreaming city weapons and armor all of it should be up to 1410. I would also say that everything you could get in season 11 including umbral engrams should be up to 1410. So that way people actually feel like they can have something to do. To sit here and say that “oh the made a mistake” is just stupid. They have made plenty of mistakes and a lot of false promises as well.

That just it, the game isn’t on a “steady decline”. It’s turning into something [i]different.[/i]. Some of you just don’t like the change...and don’t like==bad in your minds. Bungie doesn’t want to make the game that Activision was clearly forcing them to make. So the more you keep clutching on to that notion of what this game should be? The more and more unhappy you are going to be. All the changes Bungie has been making are the changes necessary to REPAIR the bad design and management decisions made under Activision’s thumb... and to her this game to stop playing like a shooter and instead like an action-RPG. Those of us who can see where the game is headed and look forward to playing that game aren’t freaking out over the changes.

Dude I’m not going to have this argument. If you want to see someone talking about Destiny 2 being on a steady decline. Go to Sweatcicle’s latest stream and he talks about all of this. With every dlc there has been less and less incentive to play the game. Also with every dlc there are less and less of people playing the game. Just on steam Destiny 2 had 32% of players drop in the first month of beyond light releasing. That’s only on stream it probably just as high on consoles.

I don’t need a streamer with less than half of my life experience and even less of my gaming experience to explain anything to me. I not mad because I don’t understand what’s going on. [i]IM NOT MAD BECAUSE I DO UNDERSTAND WHATS GOING ON AND IM NOT [b]PERSONALIZING IT!![/b][/i] When a game changes in a way that I don’t like, I accept it and move on. Some games are simply not my style....and some developers don’t want to make the kinds of games I want to play. ... and getting mad won’t change that fact.

So you’re not going to listen to someone that has put hours upon hours of time into the game. Someone that is actually there for the community saying that people deserve to be angry at what bungie is doing. He said in his stream that the issue with Bungie is that they don’t know how to maintain a player base after big content drops. Which is true and it’s happening again with Beyond Light. Clearly these Seasons every 3 months isn’t enough to maintain the player base. So instead of putting out re-issue gear to make the players that don’t like sunsetting happy. They shouldn’t of sunset them in the first place. Like why is dreaming city, the moon, tangled shore, Nessus, and Earth still in game but not all of the gear can be up to 1410. It makes no sense at all and if you can’t understand that I don’t know what to tell you.

I see your point but from another perspective (Bungie'smaybe), these streamers and a good percentage of the players spend 2 weeks grinding out 3 months of content. It is no wonder people get bored. I personally play all 3 characters at pace. Much faster than a lot but not streamer fast. I think the issue is expectations. I expect to run out of new "content" with at least a month left in the season but if you actually look at the other group of players. The numbers Bungie puts out for requirements for quests and activities truly jive with "the average" player. So I see the point of streamers and players like myself who grind. The reality is tho, we a most likely the minority here. Not in the forums but the actual community.

That’s not why people and streamers are complaining though. They are complaining because there’s no incentive to play the game once you hit max level. 3 months per person isn’t enough content to keep the players wanting to play the game. PvP is in shambles even though I don’t really like PvP it’s sad it’s in that state. PvE end game isn’t as good as it was in D1 Year 3. They shouldn’t of sunset the raids which a lot of people agree they shouldn’t of. Also what’s the point of bringing back only 4 weapons from both the moon and dreaming city. Like that’s why people are complaining sure it’s nice they are bringing those weapons back and allowing them to be up to 1410. At the same time though they are gear that shouldn’t have been sunset to began with since all the areas didn’t go away.

No. What you need to realize when looking at streamers is that they are modeling an unhealthy and unsustainable way of playing these games. 1. The games are not designed to be played for 6-8 hours a day, and still give players new stuff to do. Because you'd create a game where average players wouldn't be able to make any significant progress in the game in the time they have to play....and there would be a stampede out the door. If you make a game for the 1%, you're going to wind up with a game that only the 1% are interested in playing....and that is a MONEY LOSER for a Triple-A game. 2. "One night of your favorite meal is a treat. Eating three meals a day, every day for a YEAR....is torture." Many of these guys are so burned out on playing these games that it basically hangs off of them like a cloud of smoke. But they are trapped because their business models and platforms won't allow them to do anything differently. Datto last summer was so obviously burned out on Destiny 2 that it was painful to even watch his content. He was that visibly miserable. Another (former) Destiny content creator BBK Dragoon who made a news/play podcast called "Destiny The Show" became so burned out over a year ago....that I literally had to stop watching his content. He was so unrelentingly and irrationally negative towards the game and so toxic and unhappy in the way that interacted with his co-host that watching his podcast was just fatiguing. Like being around someone who just complains not stop about everything. To his credit, he finally woke up to the fact that he was burned out...and stopped doing content on Destiny and switched to other games. His mood improved immediately....and now he's even back to trying to dip his toe back into doing Destiny content. TLDR: None of these guys are "average gamers". None of them model a healthy relationship with these games. Most of them----after about 2 years or so of interacting with the same game every day-----start to show signs of burnout. Partly because of doing the same thign all day every day. But also many of their platforms punish them with lost revenue and viewership if they try to take time off. So they not a very good or very reliable measure of where a game stands with their typical players. Which is why Destiny isn't showing any negative impact from all the seemign "player rage" out there. Because Bungie has figured out that these guys don't actually represent and speak for their typical customer.

I agree the stuff shouldn't have been sunset to be brought back. Im also not a developer and don't know the ins and outs of making a video game. What I do know is (as a beta player) the more they added the worse things got. Everything was so tied together and buggy, maybe a fresh start was the best fix. Maybe they also feared they would introduce more bugs if they tried to release it all at once. The loot pool was cluttered with stuff no one used. The content was dry and people honestly didn't play most of it unless they "had to". No one ran the old Raids until the MoT and end of year stuff came around. I also feel like my original point is what people are complaining about. People grind to max "faster than intended" and there is no way for Bungie to keep up with that. Which is why they are going with 3-4 month long content. Again I play all 3 character, and I play a lot. I am "out of stuff to do" but only in the sense of progression. I now look forward to playing how and what I want for the next month. Or helping Clanmates finish Triumphs and Seals.

Yeah I understand what you’re talking about. At the moment all I do is get on do the gunsmith bounties. I also farm the nightfalls or just farm for a specific roll for a gun. I don’t have a issue with sunsetting but at the same time I understand where people are coming from and why they are mad. So people like Kelly here doesn’t make it any better by telling them “if you don’t like it just stop playing it”. That doesn’t do anything because the things people are complaining about will still be an issue. Honestly in my eyes would’ve just been better if Bungie took a year break and just made Destiny 3. They could’ve made Beyond Light bigger in that time frame and it should’ve been the main story for Destiny 3. They already have the next 2 DLC’s planned out with Witch Queen and Lightfall. So why not just make those the first 2 dlc ‘s for Destiny 3. At the end of the day though it’s not my game it’s Bungie’s so they can do whatever they want with the game.

I agree, the scary truth tho (I say this as someone who has gone message for message with Kelly) sometimes what Kelly says is painful truth. Personally I dont play other games, no time or desire. That said, most people I know play multiple games....so I can understand the sentiment "go play something else". As harsh/negative as it may sound.

Yeah I understand where he’s coming from with there being different games to play so go play them. At the same time there’s people that like the farming and mmorpg feeling like Destiny. There’s not many games that are like Destiny in a sense that the game is on everything and doesn’t feel the same as other games . I for one would like to play Genshin Impact but I can’t since it’s only on PlayStation and PC. I tried playing Warframe but it just doesn’t give me the same feeling Destiny does. I’m going to try out Outriders when it comes but at the same time I would like to continue to play Destiny. If someone enjoys a game and wants the game to succeed then they aren’t going to play another game. So to me I get where he’s coming from but at the same time there’s no point of telling people to stop playing the game.

Yeah, I feel that. It is kinda like a jab/poke that is unnecessary. I've come to accept that from Kelly tho. As I have said before, he and I have had some discussions we disagreed on but at the end of the day, he speaks a lot of truth. He may come across as insensitive or to most as an as$....but that is here nor there for me. I think most of us truly don't want to hear the truth because it feels like Bungie lies to us....a lot. Again tho, I'm not a dev and don't work for Bungie. I'm just an old crazy Hunter that likes to shoot baddies with my Fireteam. Stay Gold Guardian