I agree, need to nerf the living s**t out of stasis or upgrade dramatically the light supers to compete with stasis. No balance in classes anymore.

Don't play Trials? It sounds dumb but honestly Trials should have never come back.

then play light subclass, my friend had lot of fun with middle hunter arc/middle storm warlock , top solar warlock is a good counter to stasis thanks to dash , titan still have bottom arc and solar, but with stasis is riscky ,

No TL;DR because all of this is relevant, more or less. You kinda need to read it all for it to make sense or to mean anything. I play Sentinel. I tried Behemoth and it absolutely RUINED my gameplay. If you want proof that you CAN play Light subclasses effectively as ever now, look at my KD now, back when I played Behemoth, and last season. Last season my KD was around 0.4-0.5 Playing Behemoth, it was about 0.6, but my gameplay was worse than ever and I only saw improvement because Behemoth was so easy to win with. But a 0.1 KD improvement isn't that much. My KD pretty much STAYED around 0.6-0.65 the entire time I played Behemoth. Now though? Now that I've gone back to Sentinel for a while? My KD is higher than it's ever been at 1.5. Is that absurdly high? No. Is it a huge improvement? No. But you know what it is? Better than when I played the easy mode subclass. Better than when I was fighting Stasis with Stasis. It's all about HOW you fight them. My positioning is better than it's ever been, my gunplay is steadily improving, my ability usage is seeing constant improvement as well.... And it's all because I refuse to let Stasis outclass me. I refuse to sit idly by and just accept that it's stronger than me by default. It's not an ever-growing ceiling that I can't reach, it's a bar that I have to climb. Learn to counter what can be countered. Learn to play around what can't be countered. Learn to avoid what can't be countered or played around. Wanna know what I've found? I'll break it down. __________________________________________________________________________________ What can be countered? By who? How? __________________________________________________________________________________ 1 - Duskfield grenade. By anyone. You can actually use the momentum of the pull during detonation to your advantage. Are you already behind cover and they're trying to get you out? Run and jump towards the grenade. If you time it right, the pull will activate as you're in the air, launching you at about 2x, maybe 2.5x speed through the field, actually pulling you all the way to the opposite side of the field, making it easy to simply step out and keep running to the next bit of cover or a better spot. If you're in the open, jumping OR sliding will work. 2 - Behemoth super. By dawnblades, titans with Lion Rampants with High Lift, and Hunters with stompees. For dawnblades, they can reach heights the behemoth simply can't. Even if the behemoth does get as far up as the dawnblade, they can't STAY up there. Their melee pulls them at a downward angle, and their R2 drops them straight down. A dawnblade can literally just sit in the air until the super is over. Obviously they can't stay up the entire duration, but you can be on the run while airborne, making it that much easier to outmaneuver the behemoth. For titans with Lion Rampant, they extend the duration of your glide by a good few seconds, and the distance too. Normally they're most effective with Control Lift, but to counter behemoth you need High Lift. This simulates Dawnblades jump, to a lesser extent. You have a little less height, but still a safe height, and it doesn't keep you in the air as long, BUT just like dawnblade it offers enough mobility to run, and you can fire at the behemoth while lifting, so you never lose your opportunity to kill them out of super. For hunters with stompees, it's hardest on you folks. Sorry. Stompees with max mobility is necessary, as is strong map awareness and radar awareness. Literally just...book it. Jump as high and as far as you can, and never stop moving. Stay off the ground as often as possible. Behemoth is at its strongest on the ground, and using its melee for movement and securing long-distance kill jumps. Dawnblades, lion rampant titans, and stompees hunters all have insane airplay, making them ideal counters to behemoth, with dawnblade being THE ideal, titan lion rampant being second best, stompees max mobility hunter third best. 3 - Revenant super. By Titans with Antaeus Wards, and middle tree arcstaff super. For titans, if you time it just right, you can actually reflect the Silence kama, freezing the revenant BEFORE they can throw the Squall kama. Not only does this completely stop their super, it opens up a free kill as well. Middle tree arcstrider, same thing, but only when you're in super of course. Best part though is your super reflects on activation, meaning you can actually do this with panic supers and reflexive supers. __________________________________________________________________________________ What can't be countered, but CAN be played around? By who? How? __________________________________________________________________________________ 1. Coldsnap - By anyone, but easiest for titans and dawnblades. When you see or hear a coldsnap coming, jump and get away from walls and ceilings. I know that sounds like "get out of cover", but what it boils down to is getting OUT of your opponents line of sight while staying away from surfaces for the coldsnap to climb. For example, say you're on dead cliffs, and you're in the open area just outside of the spawn in the back building (the closed one, not the one where heavy spawns with the cliff). If a coldsnap comes at you, look for the nearest escape route and Lift, Jump, or Glide towards it. Do anything you can to break line of sight with your opponent, but also do everything you can to stay away from surfaces. Obviously easier said than done, but with enough practice, it becomes reflex and second nature to pull a move like that without even thinking about it. Dawnblades have this easiest because of their incredible airplay, while titans can actually CREATE a surface to eat away at the coldsnaps duration a little by slamming down their barricade then Lifting away from it. Bear in mind, going up isn't always the best idea. For titans, it's best to jump and glide when you have the most forward momentum after DROPPING from the apex height of your basic jump. For dawnblades, you surely know how to pick up horizontal momentum, you don't need me to tell you. Hunters have it hardest here, but your jumps, when timed right, last more than long enough to outlast the coldsnap. The hardest part of this is being aware of the coldsnap coming at you, reacting in time, and in the case of hunters, avoiding surfaces WHILE avoiding line of sight. But it is possible. 2 - Shiver Strike. Anyone, dawnblades easiest. The more stealth buffs they throw at this thing, the worse it becomes. My friends and I test this regularly because of how often they'll buff it without saying. It's gotten 3 tracking buffs, 2 mobility tweaks (one decreased the forward momentum SLIGHTLY, to reduce the actual distance you can cover with the initial lunge, while the other increased the rate of descent SLIGHTLY to reduce the horizontal movement), and a physics tweak (still testing this one, but I did notice something's changed again since the last change.). I'm listing these because you can actually use them to your FULL advantage. Shiver Strike is half-drained by the initial lunge, the other half draining on the punch itself, meaning if you do anything to prevent a behemoth from finishing the lunge, they will still have HALF their melee. So we don't want to do that, right? We want them to waste the entire melee, without hitting us in the process. Here's how. If you see they're about to melee you from way up high, run at them. Seriously. Don't jump at them, don't walk or run away. Run. Right. At. Them. Slide when you're directly below them. It'll put you into a spot they CAN'T turn to fast enough, they'll miss entirely, but still lose their melee. What if they're going to melee you from even ground, without jumping? Easy. Run at them, then jump, glide, or lift to their side above them. The tracking is powerful, but it's not perfect, and this bugs it out. By jumping to their side and above them at just the right time (timing is tricky, but vital. Get it right, or they'll hit you anyways, but this isn't just easy counters and such, this is simply listing the ways to get around it) you'll actually bug their tracking so that they end up being pulled to where you were at the START of your initial jump, rather than pulling them to where you are after hitting your double jump, lift, or glide, meaning you'll be safe in the air behind them and ready to drop down to gun them down, and they'll have lost their melee for nothing. If you're a dawnblade, you can also just fly straight up the instant you see one is about to melee you, since the rate of descent on their melee won't allow them to keep the height needed to hit you. 3 - Shurikens. Anyone, titans easiest. With shurikens, I believe they have some tracking to them, which can make this a little tricky, but like all things with tracking, it's not particularly hard to bug it out. Abuse geometry like crazy. If you're unaware of the shuriken, obviously this isn't gonna work, but that goes for all this stuff. You have to be aware of what is happening at any given time. Anyways, abuse geometry. Know a shuriken is coming down a hall at you? Side-step it HARD. It might hit the back wall and bounce back at you, but that's when you side-step the other way twice as hard. Are they ricocheting it down that hall from wall to wall? If the roof is high enough, jump high as you can and drop quickly. If the shuriken is high, crouch or slide past it. Can't avoid it with either of those? Think about the angles it's bouncing at, predict where it will be headed for the next 3 bounces, and move to a safe spot between those lines of movement. That last one is easiest if you already have a mind for angles and geometry, but it's a skill worth developing. (Continued in replies, please do not reply to this one, reply to final part when it is posted)

The fastest cool down for stasis grenades is around 1min and that’s at 100 discipline. The cool downs are already much longer than the light subclasses.

A decent player will be decent regardless of class or subclass. Have you considered that maybe you just aren’t good?

[quote]Trials is not fun when I am more or less forced to play ice simulator. I have won games with the other classes, I have seen limited success, but stasis is a set of tools that defines a playstyle. Went against several teams this week abusing the vacuum nades with shurikens. Bakris is infuriating. The dodge slow aspect is infuriating. The behemoth [i]melee[/i] is.... broken.... Post nerf shadebinder is pretty balanced but access to the vacuum nade is still really broken on all classes. I have a lot of hours on crucible and don’t intend to stop playing anytime soon, but frankly I’d rather die to some busted guns than ability spam. There needs to be a balance between abilities and weapons, and right now stasis tips the scale so hard that we have game devs thinking subclasses should be sunset? Like no you doofs, there’s no reason to use those classes with busted ice.[/quote] The best subclass in PVP is a light one. You can be successful at the highest level on many light subclasses. The guy who spread the gospel of revenant smash wombo plays trials on a [b][i]chaos reach warlock[/i][/b]! The post is what you don’t like playing against not why you think light subs are underpowered when they aren’t. Stasis doesn’t need a nerf. Players need to accept the sandbox changed and adapt to the new Sandbox.

What's that? Sunset your light subclasses?

Thinking like this got us the shit that was D2 vanilla. In D1 abilities and grenades played a much bigger role in PvP and some whiny tryhards complained that PVP should be about “gun skill” which -blam!-ing lol in Destiny. Go play CoD if you want it to be guns only