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12/26/2020 10:53:03 AM
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“It’s a space magic game”
Anyone who has read a post about “X ability is too strong and I think it should get tuned down” or “X ability is too weak and I think it deserves a buff,” and then proceeded to look at the comments can definitively say a staggering majority of those posts will always have at least one comment that in some way expresses the idea that “Well Destiny is a game about Space magic, if you wanted to use guns go play ‘X fps game’ lmao.”
To those of you that comment that, I beg the question: If abilities are that important to what makes Destiny, Destiny then why not default every crucible game mode to Mayhem? I mean if it seems so important that an ability is never tuned down to allow for more gunfights then why not completely remove gunfights from the game? Hell lets just take guns out of the crucible! I mean it is a game about space magic! In fact lets just remove guns from Destiny entirely, we don’t need those in a game about space magic.
Are you starting to see the stupidity in that argument? All the forum posts are not asking “take abilities out of the game” a vast majority are just “hey, this ability is too oppressive and needs to get looked at and adjusted to make it more consistent with other abilities so that there is an incentive to use other subclasses/guns,” and yet you reply the exact same way “its a space magic game why are you so worried about gunfights.” Unless you 100% agree with the sentiment that guns should straight up be taken completely out of the game, stop replying to every balancing critique with “its a space magic game.”
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Edited by RussellMania: 12/26/2020 2:40:43 PMThank you. This is the dumbest and most overused argument against balancing Crucible. Destiny is a FPS with abilities, PvP, MMO aspects, RPG aspects, etc. It’s DESIGNED to span multiple genres. When did one group that prefers one aspect of the game decide their vision for it is superior and try to force that vision on everyone else? It’s frustrating when players who want a dumb, easy PvE gaming experience attempt to dictate PvP balancing, under the false pretense that PvP players are on some kind of holy mission to intentionally destroy every ability in PvE on their way to making Destiny an e-Sport (Btw, that’s the second most overused argument... Literally not once have I seen someone say Destiny needs to be an e-Sport. Players just want common sense balancing, which apparently is a problem in this community). PvP balancing rarely effects PvE in a significant manner, and when it does (penumbral blast, for example, which btw was fixed shortly), PvP players pretty much universally disagree with it. The majority of changes are separated between the two modes (Stasis freeze times) or designed to minimally affect PvE (Sleeper Simulant AA nerf), however people who think this way just ignore that completely instead of encouraging Bungie to build on it. The biggest threat to space magic in this game is PvE itself, BY FAR. Just in the last 2 years, we’ve seen MASSIVE nerfs at an unprecedented scale in PvE coming as a result of power creep trivializing endgame content. Besides endless nerfs, this caused sunsetting to be implemented, and the “space magic” people are the same people who have been crying about sunsetting for literally a year.
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Usually I don’t get to involved in the forums but the shooting aspect of destiny is what’s kept it afloat. It’s a solid shooter with good gun and core mechanics. The new ability spam (aka hunter dive shatter ) from across distances that’s shouldn’t kill players in a pvp setting still exists. It’s kind of busted and the ability spam sometimes gets to much.
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It's a space magic game, go play call of duty if you want guns?...... No, it's a looter shooter...go play elder scrolls online if you want magic.
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1 ReplyEdited by Lord Araphel: 12/27/2020 1:22:02 AMThe gunplay in this game is so shotgun oriented its not even funny. This is still the best sandbox in a long time but shotguns all the time is more broken the an ability. This is not CoD abilities, stats, perks, and mods all matter. Stop trying to fill the void of CoD by making anything with a gun like CoD. Even CoD was putting abilities and stuff in it and the babies whined so now its barebones again. Destiny is not a pure fps its the last of dying breed and thats a future shooter with stuff that isn't traditional or CoD centric. The same that blame abilities are the same that will backpedal and blame guns, you're running out of excuses this sandbox is the most balanced it has ever been minus cbmm and the return of cheaters but you can't blame guns or abilities anymore.
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Destiny has some of the best gunplay out there. To the point where a lot of people play only for the gunplay. Many Youtubers and players asking for a ‘no ability’ mode for PvP and so on. It’s outright arrogant to say ‘it’s a space magic game’ when people complain about over balanced abilities. I’m a stasis hunter and hot damn shatter dive kill radios is insane. Needs nerfing. And ‘it’s a space magic game’ isn’t a valid counter
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2 RepliesMayhem should be the regular crucible mode IMO and have been saying this since Destiny 1 but the try-hard community who failed at Halo keeps PvP how it is.
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Nah, all abilities would not be fun. I don't really like playing mayhem. The shooting in destiny is what makes it the best game, in my opinion. If you get rid of the guns, I probably would stop playing.
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41 Replies"Wah wah wah Nerf abilities, buff gunplay" That's what you sound like. The game is a mix of both, always has been, deal with it.
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Edited by TheArtist: 12/27/2020 5:03:52 PMThe argument isn’t stupid. The problem is that Destiny is (for now) A BAD MARRIAGE. A bad marriage of an power fantasy/loot game..,and those (pve) players who want to play that game.... ...and a competitive FPS...and those pvp players who want to play that game. There are two reasons WHY it is a bad marriage: 1. What the pve players want from the game, and what pvp players want from it are INCOMPATIBLE....and very few people are willing to face that uncomfortable truth. 2. [i]Pve brought all the resources to the marriage, but pvp players wield an outsized level of power.[/i] Pve players out number pvp players 2-to-1. Pve brings most of the money into the game. Pve players are the most loyal fanbase. Pve is what makes this game unique and stand out. [b]But the needs of pvp dominate how the game is tuned, balanced...and limits how creative devs can be around gameplay.[/b]. As evidenced by how pvp got Shadebinder’s nerfed in only 8 days after the launch of [i]Beyond Light.[/i] It is a space-magic game because that is what people think of when they mention this game....and it’s what this community made clear it wanted when it rejected a vanilla Destiny 2 that was trying to become a pure shooter. Someday this bad marriage is going to end. It has to. Because the game can’t get where Smith wants to take it while trying to drag a dying competitive shooter behind it. Beyoncé didn’t need Destiny’s Child...and Destiny 2 doesn’t need pvp.
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2 RepliesThe majority of posts I've seen ask for Stasis to be completely removed or deliberately placed into an unplayable state ("nerfed into the ground"). Abilities have always been part of the game. No one cries when I use my grenade on them. Difference is now the grenade looks blue and doesn't instantly kill you.
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If you want a gun skill game Titianfall 2 and Apex Legends do it better.
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Any time someone has a blanket boilerplate answer that they use for everything its just not good. Then they don't have to really back up what think. Ends up with less total actual thinking and that is for damn sure not something that this forum or game needs. It is part of an argument that has had a pretty negative effect on the game imo. Like in PvP, the current matchmaking settings have removed a large portion of the gunplay from the game for a lot of people. And then you have stasis, which one of the reasons that its good is that it was balanced by the best gunplay ever, so you then remove the gunplay and slow the game down and its nothing but constant stasis that you can't get away from like when BL first dropped and no one knew how to use it. And the deepest a lot of people want to get into what should be an interesting conversation around how the game is balanced and what is fair is "ITSUM SPACE MAJIK GAME!" Pretty sure everyone knows the game is a space magic game and that is the exact reason why everyone who plays it plays the game. People should not feel the need to remind everyone else of that because it just cheapens the conversation to do nothing but state the obvious. And of course, here on the destiny forums your post gets nothing but downvotes.
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Space magic? My warlock was supposed to be a space wizard but the crying from hunters nerf them so many times I just don't play warlock.
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6 RepliesI use that argument because I believe Destiny is at its best when it enbraces the craziness. Pvp controls too much of the game and leads to constant nerfs. I'll continue to use the argument when needed because people need to realise that it's pve game first.
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So what you’re saying is Buff Shatterdive!!! But there is too much ability spam. If that’s what I wanted I go play mayhem all week when it’s out. Too much Cheese Stinks.
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1 ReplyEdited by Fish: 12/27/2020 1:27:30 PMYou took the argument to the extreme. Pretty sure there is a name for that. Some abilities should be tuned down, but what's the point of abilities if they aren't useful. What's the point if they dont define the playstyle in some way. I get all this armor to spec into certain stats, but hey lets just nerf stasis then those stats won't matter either. The thing with stasis is people don't want it nerfed. They want it removed from PvP. You tried to imply otherwise but most people don't have the memory of a gold fish like you do. Imagine if the abilities in Mass Effect only tickled the enemies. It be a lot less engaging. Abilities are defining feature of Destiny and admittedly some of them do need some slight tweaking. I still think you're a -blam!-ing moron though.
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hell yeah i agree with op we should get rid of guns from the game!
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1 ReplyMore gunplay, less cheese would be nice.
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Just go back to playing CoD with the rest of the braindead 13 year olds.
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3 RepliesMayhem has an increased charge rate. So that’s why it shouldn’t be standard. Obvious. It’s an amped up version of ability use. No one argues for that to be the standard. Strawman Going hyperbolic about removing guns is stupid and shows your just a hater. No one who says ‘it’s a space magic game’ makes that argument. Another strawman So you’re literally whining about something you made up. You may as well be slapping yourself and blaming me for it. Chump. Same sort of brain dead reasoning as someone saying abilities are crutches. That nonsense doesn’t seem to bother you, so -blam!- off with this bull. There are posts asking for Stasis to be removed from pvp and disabling freeze. Going to rant like they don’t exist lol moron The other subclasses are still viable, people choose to be clones and follow whatever some streamer tells them is meta. Seems like you’re one of them. I ran a few games with Code of Missile and smoked fools in Control. Me, with subpar stats. So don’t come crying about space magic in a space magic game. You look like a 🤡
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Mayhem sure is the only fun PvP mode that we have. Space magic!
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It WAS a space magic game till everything got nerfed to hell now its the icelympics.
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you're missing something very fundamental here. When people say it's a space magic game what we mean is that the game is meant to express itself in that matter. This is destiny's identity. This is what separates it from division and borderlands and so on. you need to understand when players are saying this is to oppressive this is to overpowered, they are complaining because they don't know how to handle it. They don't commit enough to understand the ins and outs of the abilities being used. They probably hardly play anyway when they just want everything to be an easy stroll for them. Reasons may vary but they're not groundbreaking and intelligent. players don't want balance, they want easy. People are complaining right now because they get Frozen every 5 seconds but then you look at their loadout and all they use are shotguns. People complain about flinching but all they do is snipe. Take the players perspective into consideration when you're trying to stick up for them. For one thing, in my experience you're wasting your time and another, you're not going to get anywhere. It is a space magic game. The abilities should be wacky, kooky, very niche and killer to look at. You start tweaking them and making them do less damage or make them activate slower or anything you could think of just so you can get five extra seconds of reaction time then you are not doing this game of service and ultimately are proving that this game isn't for you.
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9 RepliesYour entire argument is not only flat out ignorant, it is simplistic. The point of “it’s a game about space magic” is not about “guns are useless”. It about the fact that the game tries to take itself seriously and it shouldn’t. Trials for example, it should be impossible to go flawless in trials. Not difficult, not very hard, the literal definition of impossible. When you have skill based matchmaking your win rate should be at or very near 50%. Any higher your skill rating rises until you get to your skill level and level out. Any lower your skill rating falls until your skill rating/win ratio levels out. That is how skill based works. Which means winning 7 in a row should never happen. The issue is that instead of just letting people have fun and play for that reason bungie puts rewards behind this illusion of a skill barrier when there is no skill involved in destiny pvp. Anyone who thinks there is is just delusional. It is is luck. Luck that matchmaking favors you this time and luck that you don’t get booted. That is why people say that, because people need to stop asking for “balance” when that cannot happen in destiny and need to start demanding that bungie embrace what the game actually is. Tl;dr. You are factually wrong and harmful to the direction the destiny future might have.
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How about asking for a mode without abilities instead of asking for a nerf
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1 ReplyI don’t recall ever seeing “it’s a space magic game” used as an argument against pvp balancing. People say that because of Bungies woeful track record of adjusting abilities and weapons seperately for both pvp and pve. PVP balancing passes almost invariably ruin the problem ability in pve, the part of the game that [i]is[/i] about “space magic”.
