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12/13/2020 12:49:01 AM
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The champions/mod environment is bad for the game.
I don’t feel that I am making builds around my play style and what loadouts I use. I am merely using whatever builds the nerds say will negate the stuff you put into specific activities. That isn’t fun. It doesn’t let me play the game how I would normally.
Every player is going, ok, what champions are in this and then mod the crap out of themselves in a very specific way because someone told them to do it this way and off they go.
That is boring, but the alternative, wasting time slogging through an activity using guns they want to use, isn’t an option because it will eat your brain.
Within your current framework, I can’t offer you solutions because you build the game around the existence of things instead of just building the game within the framework of all things existing naturally within it. Stasis became the priority in use. Whatever weapon types you chucked champion mods on became the priority in use.
The thing is, the power progression system feels reasonably ok. Get to the hard cap by just playing the game. That’s a positive thing, but sweet Jesus I am just so tired of the way we are railroaded into very specific builds just to complete random activities instead of figuring out what works best for us and enjoy the game.
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1 ReplyEdited by ForeverLaxx: 12/13/2020 5:00:53 PMI will forever hold the opinion that Champions were a mistake and serve as nothing more than another avenue for Bungie to control what players are using in a given season. Bungie has routinely shown, despite saying otherwise, that they don't want players to use whatever weapon feels good or performs well for their style. No, Bungie has shown that they believe that only they know what you should be using and have been instituting systems, deletions, and "balance fixes" to force the playerbase into specific loadouts. It's no coincidence that Champions practically force you back into the Double Primary "meta" we had on release. If you want a Special weapon to take care of the job, it takes SEVEN energy for your Shotgun to handle Unstoppables, vs running TWO/THREE energy for every other Primary option. The grenade refresh combination only works against Overloads, arguably the most annoying of them all, but it's situational and restricted in usefulness to the Paid Subclass. All of this is to make players weaker. That has always been Bungie's intended goal. From the reduction in ability to "overlevel" content, to the removal of weapons/armor, to Champions, and to the Seasonal model itself -- it's all to make you weaker, drag out the game, and keep you grinding endlessly in hopes that you'll spend money at the cash shop.
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I don't mind champions themselves but hate how it's pretty much only select primaries that get the mods. You should be able to use energies and heavies that aren't exotics as well and just have which mods apply to which guns rotate every season. But ALL guns should have a champion mod every season.
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Ehhh im like 50/50 on champions. I wish the mods weren't weapon specific. Also overload anything is awful. They arent consistent. That's my main gripe. Unstoppable, easy. Barrier, easy. Overload annoying AF. Sometimes they get disrupted right away, cool Other times they tank through everything, kill you and then while your dead, they get disrupted after the fact. Makes zero sense.
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Mods should be put on the slot no individual weapon. The. You could use whatever mod you like with any primary, energy or heavy weapon.
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I actually like the new Champions. If the mods would be applicable on general types of Weapons like Kinetic, Energy and Heavy, I would be happy already. I just do not like to use certain weapon types in harder activities. Not because it is ruining my comfort zone, but I want to do the hardest activities with my best loadout. Waving a hand cannon in a NF for like 2-3 enemies isn't my best loadout I can imagine. I also do not like this hand holding at all. If you want me to use a certain weapon or type, make cool weapons I want to use and I will use them.
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3 RepliesOverload captains need to be removed COMPLETELY. It is unacceptable to have an enemy teleport so much that you can’t even hit it.
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7 RepliesEdited by TJ_Dot: 12/13/2020 3:06:32 PMSince their introduction, I thought unique enemies with actual differentiation to their behavior and physical mechanics to this vs a random forcefield would have them be challenging enemies due to what they bring to the table and how you have to fight around them, not just bring the right mods I'll reference Warframe's Nullifier: a complete dick with a forcefield that suppress all abilities. You can shoot the shield to shrink it until it's gone, run inside to kill the guy outright, OR you can shoot the drone that projects the shield and destroy it permanently. If it were Destiny the last two interactions wouldn't even exist and you need a mod to bypass the first. That isn't dynamic or what constitutes a challenging enemy, it's just a nuisance with only one way to deal with it. You have no flexibility such that you should have in a "challenge" to avoid the experience being bashing your head against a wall. Psychologically, challenge is a Goldilocks situation, it has to be just right. Champions are fundamentally not right now. Too much and for no growth.
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Honestly I'd be a whole lot cooler with them if damage done to an overload champion while they were disrupted didn't regen back at all. That way you're allowed to chip enemies to death while people with more practice could still melt them and save time.
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Champions are just a shallow gimmick. Using the models of the same old enemies in the same old places, slapping a colored shield on them and saying that you have to shoot them with a specific gun is far less effort than the alternative of creating more content.
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Edited by Emurinus: 12/14/2020 1:13:11 AMChampions just took the most obnoxious parts of PvE (ability spam and bullet sponges) and rolled them into a enemy type that's only tolerable with a specialized mod set. It's not even much of an issue with difficulty; they're just plain obnoxious no matter the light level, but higher light obviously makes them harder to kill. The champion mods at least took a step in the right direction by being usable for exotics now, but stuck mostly to arms on armor does limit viability to an extent, along with whichever idiot made unstoppable shotguns a slot cost of 7. There's some stuff I've love to change on them, but that's worth it's own discussion.
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Edited by GiantSlayer: 12/14/2020 3:17:58 PMI kinda like it actually. Having specific abilities or weapons that neutralize those champions with the mods rotating each season makes the weapons and abilities meta fresh and new each season. For example, last season if you were a Titan you were either running Bubble or Banner Shield in Champion activities or you weren’t running them at all. Now, the meta has shifted to Stasis or Sunbreaker because of the mods. These champion mods also provide value to exotics who would otherwise be worthless, such as Eriana’s vow and with the most recent changes Sweet Business and Hard Light (whenever Anti-Barrier auto rolls around again)
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they've been improving on it but they still have a ways to go I don't think Its that serious
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Champions in crucible make that happen Bungie!
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9 RepliesI mean, if you play the game in a way specific people say you should, then that's on you. I make my own builds and I've gotten along fine so far.
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New day a new Lost Sector. Grinding Concealed Void is the most depressing and most bullshit experience in a game I've ever played. Champions teleporting out of stuns. Servitor teleporting around the room giving shield through walls and teleporting behind walls to do a full heal. Near automatic seeking bolts firing enemy staying out of line of sight and just hosing down a corridor from a 90° angle forcing to use a super that doesn't deal enough damage to kill because of the cobstant health regen. And in Veles Labyrinth there are teleporting ustoppable ogres. I need to start playing "Entry of the Gladiators" whenever I go farm these """end game activities""" since it's such a fiesta of jokes.
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I get that they want to make it so we don’t rely on specific things or whatever but they are literally forcing you almost to use the lament for basically everything. Easiest way to take out a barrier and overload with a single weapon is with the lament. Change my mind
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last season i took polaris lance out of the vault for the first time in maybe a year, and used it in gm lake of shadows. It was great and i enjoyed using the gun. Seems like you just don’t like nightfall: ordeal and thats ok, there are other activities to play
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i actually dissagree, it makes me leave my comfort zone, i mean when would i use a scout? but champions make me use a scout or maybe an auto rifle but i do dislike the overload champions.
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4 RepliesThe whole purpose of champions are a challenge and to move you away from one dimensional load outs. If you don't like them, don't play it. It's not that hard to beat them.
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1 ReplyI think they just need to give us a much bigger variation of weapons we can use to take down champions every season. Because sticking to certain guns as you say limits the fun and potential of the game.
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Champions as a concept are fine. Having to change builds for certain activities makes sense and encourages players to try different loadouts. The problem with champions is that Bungie seems to view them as their end-all solution for end-game difficulty. "Want this strike to be more challenging? Just add more champions!"
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1 ReplyGod forsake Bungie add mechanics that involve something other than mindlessly holding down the trigger. Champions are fine, just be better.
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2 RepliesIMO if the mods weren't broken and worked as they are supposed to champions wouldn't be an issue. What kind of makes me upset, but correct me if I'm wrong. Rumor has it that they are adding champions to VoG and without them fixing the broken mods VoG is going to be a huge mess. Personally, I'm kind of tired of this company creating content that is broken and not fixing the issue and calling it good. "Will fix it later" to where things like Gambit that has major issues have not been taken care of since it released.
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So many people butt hurt about champions
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1 ReplyReally, the only champions I find bad are the overload champions. They are just a combination of the barrier champions and the unstoppable while typically being on the most obnoxious enemy they can find. It's not hard disabling them, as well as the others, but them completely removing all of your damage you dealt to them just feels awful especially in modes like 1280 nightfalls where you can barely kill them with guillotine before they have the chance to slap and one shot you. I don't know what they can do to them without just making them worse unstoppable champions, but being a constantly teleporting, healing, one shotting enemy is just ridiculous. At least the barrier champions have to stop moving to heal.
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And furthermore what is the actual difference between them all champions restore health. Between Unstoppable and Overload like what really is the difference
