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originally posted in: Remove free to play.
9/19/2020 7:21:18 PM
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Halo: MCC Edition is a paid game, and there are hacks for it. Call of Duty is a paid game, and there are hacks for each installment. Doom 2016 is a paid game, and there are hacks for it. Overwatch is a paid game, and there are hacks for it. Rainbow 6 Siege is a paid game, and there are hacks for it. Making the game free to play didn't cause hackers, they've always been in the gaming industry. Making the game paid won't get rid of them. They're already dropping hundreds of dollars for decently coded trainers. And if you want to try to claim PC made the hacking worse, sure, maybe it has, but you can easily jailbreak or cfw flash a Console, use modded controllers, or any number of other methods to hack. Might be harder or more time consuming, but it can be done. The monetized hamster wheel is another story, but let's be real, let's be honest, let's be real honest. Rather or not the game became paid again wouldn't get rid of the hypermonetized situation. The annual pass started during Season of the Forge, right? That was almost 2 years ago. Even if you want to bundle the pass with the DLC, the DLCs still cost money. The base cost of Beyond Light is 40 bucks, with the pass costing an additional 10 bucks. Shadowkeep, which had the pass included at base, was 35 bucks, so excluding the pass Shadowkeep was 25 bucks. That's a 60% increase at base. Even if you want to use the 35 amount, that's still a 14% increase. Eververse was introduced October 2015, so it's not new either as it was in the game, and was introduced into Destiny 2 around Curse of Osiris, which was a paid DLC. I'll now return the floor to you so you can make any counter arguments.
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  • I watch Joker too.

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  • Your argument regarding cheating falls short. Free to play increased the population of cheaters. If the game was not F2P there would be less cheaters because not all cheaters want to keep buying the game and the expansions and whatnot to cheat in a game. Most of these cheaters are young kids who cheat just to cheat, some do it because they suck, others do it because its free money via carries and whatnot. If Bungo was to reverse the F2P, implemented an ACTUAL anti-cheat FFS, added dedicated servers, AND locked trials behind an expansion or something, then the amount of cheaters would SIGNIFICANTLY go down. But lets be honest and realistic here, none of what I mentioned is going to be done / implemented whatsoever, or anytime soon.

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  • Your Right, It wont stop cheating. It will however decrease it. If People decide to cheat after they paid and get banned they lose their account, time investment, and money spent on DLC and cosmetics. Right now cheating has very little repercussions which makes people will more likely to attempt it. If they cheat right now they get a slap on the wrist or an account ban they can easily circumvent with an alternate account. If we put everything behind a paywall it makes cheating less worth it by having more risk and less reward. It deters people from cheating. The best middle ground solution I can think of is to give f2p accounts a separate f2p crucible play list and paid accounts a separate list of their own. Kind of like how CS-GO did their prime membership. It would keep F2P alive and paid members happy. (Note: paid players would be able to join f2p lobby's for faster matching if they so wished) Long Story short- We may not be able to get rid of cheating. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to deter it. Saying we shouldn't do anything because there is no perfect solution is like saying we shouldn't have law enforcement because crimes and murders will happen regardless. (By the way, you might want to rewrite your second paragraph or add an addendum. I cant understand its purpose or why it was introduced in the first place. I get your talking about hyper-monetization of the game but I don't see what point it is supporting. Perhaps you could clarify that for me.)

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  • 1: Cheating has and will always be, like it or not. I know people who, before self unbans and maskers were found, would not only buy multiple copies of an Xbox game like Halo, but ALSO buy another console if theirs got hardware banned. If someone is willing to drop not only 300 to 400 dollars for an Xbox, but also a few hundred for cheats, what makes you think a cheater won't drop 60 bucks or whatever? The only best way to ban a cheater is to ban payment method. To my knowledge, no company has done that except when the credit card is fraudulent, or the check bounced. We should try to deter it, yes, but making the game paid, or even going to the extreme and making it a subscription, won't do this. If people got the money, they'll blow it somehow. Making the game paid for will only make the hackers work harder to improve their trainers so it's harder to detect it. 2: The point is that this game would still be hyper monetized. We got paid DLC, a Season Pass, and Eververse. World of Warcraft has a 15 dollar monthly subscription, plus a cash shop, plus paid DLC. Final Fantasy 14 has a 13 dollar monthly subscription, plus a cash shop, plus paid DLC. Bungie is double dipping the player base already, making the base game paid is just triple dipping at this point. I'm not defending this practice, no way. There are plenty of free to play games that do one or the other. Warframe for example has a cash shop, but all expansions are completely free. And the games that did have multiple forms of premium content also had ways of obtaining premium currency through trades or such. Rift Online for example (No idea if this game is even alive anymore) you could buy a package of their premium currency, then sell that currency through the market place. This is something that won't change. When you fall into the trap of corporate greed, you don't come back out until you either shutter or new management happens. Making the Crucible paid just punishes the legitimate players as now they have to pay a one time or subscription because of a basement dwelling neckbeard. It also turns the game into paid to win. Imagine if Crucible was paid for when Mountaintop and Recluse were first released. If you think the outrage against Bungie is bad right now, try to imagine everyone screaming "DeS gEmEs PiD tU wEn!"

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  • Thank you for clarifying the second topic you were covering. The main idea that I was trying to get across is that the majority of cheaters are not going to have a budget to keep buying new hardware and game copies over and over again. There is really only a small niche group of people that have the income to do that. I would rather come across a cheater every 50 games than 3 games. (These numbers are not actual stats, just numbers to convey the idea of frequency). Bungie could even add 2FA to prevent multiple account purchases. (you have to register a real phone number to an account to buy stuff. fake numbers are also very easy to block out. if you get banned you would possibly need to change your phone number $$$, buy a new console, and even a new copy of the game plus all the dlc you owned. "And it aint cheap...") Also, I do not agree with the statement that paying for crucible creates pay to win. Pay to win entails that the game has in game items you may purchase "directly" to gain an unfair advantage over other players. (Hence called pay to win) The practice of locking new weapons and armor behind expansions is common practice in many other subscription based games. It is nothing new. It makes sense that if you go F2p that you don't have access to all of the other content. Take beyond light for example. you are not going to be able to access all the new raid equipment and gear because you don't own the expansion. you wont be able to access any of the raid exotics or exotic gear either. By the current definition you just gave me, The content drop itself would make the game pay to win if some raid weapon was really good for pve and pvp. Note: just had an epiphany at the end of typing this. If the season pass contains items that allow you to rank up faster, does that make it pay to win? (pay to progress is a another version of p2w that can vary by grinding intensity)

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