<Now this has nothing to do with whether it's likely or not. I'm not here to debate who's who or whether the whole thing was a lie. I'm just here to say that the idea of a killer in our midst is dumb as hell as of right now and picking on the current likely candidate because people won't shut the -blam!- up about it.
Before that, however, let me just say a couple things.
SoA initially started out great for me. I finally saw what I knew was coming when Rasputin tried to nuke the Io Pyramid before it UNO reversed him and forced a remote shutdown. Funniest shit I've ever seen. I feel so bad for everyone who actually thought he could hold a candle to even a basic -blam!- Pyramid ship like the Io one. Interference started off strong, too, even though the delay takes major points off on my final rating because it was unnecessary.
Speaking of unnecessary, my issues with SoA's lore peaked in with Prophecy. -blam!- the "Savathun's Song" retcon in particular, but the other thing Savathun-related that popped up this season spawned from the Traveler's Chosen lore tab. This one in particular describes an entity (either an Ahamkara or Savathun) looking through the skull by Shaxx and towards Zavala, hoping to "reach out".
This tab in particular sparked the interests of many when they remembered the Darkness giving us a message about a killer among us. Further enhanced by the "Conviction" tab in which Eris goes on about Zavala, the one she knows that holds the most of it. While I've been convinced this would be better suited for Aunor, again, I'm not here to debate that.
So, why do I say that Zavala is the "worst choice" to be this supposed killer or traitor? I say this because it's completely and utterly unnecessary on two parts.
[b]Part 1 - Unnecessary for Zavala[/b]
Zavala doesn't need to be manipulated or directed in order to snap and become more... strict, so to say. Let me give you the scope and how close this man is to snapping right now.
- Experienced a total takeover of the City during the Red War, in which his faith in Rasputin, the Traveler, and his ideals were ALL brought into question (some worse than others)
- Had the Ana Bray go behind his back countless times to investigate a Warmind he no longer supported
- Had us go behind his back to investigate a Warmind he no longer supported
- Witnessed us HELP Bray in basically giving Rasputin free reign over every weapon system in the Warmind network
- Had his friend die and had to hold in all his emotion for what he considered the better course of action
- Finally put his faith in Rasputin only to have the latter get remotely shut down to the point where only a sliver of data remained
- Had three of four destination-holders stay back and fight, including one whom he considered a close friend
- Had four places he once considered under Guardian control taken away so easily by a force we have no counters against
- Despite having four destinations overtaken, the Traveler continues to do nothing
Like, my man is THIS CLOSE to losing his shit because he expresses nothing. That look during Cayde's funeral told me everything I needed to know. This dude's been repressing since the Red War. All it takes is one big enough push and my guy will go off the rails. For example, Stasis. We come back to the Tower with ACTUAL POWERS FROM THE DARK and his whole world on Light and Dark as abilities will shatter. Oh, and here's the better example... Uldren Sov. Uldren may one day come to the Tower and Zavala, assuming he's unaware, will be pissed as all hell. Even if he knows better, he may still go off anyway. The Traveler literally brought back the guy who killed his friend.
He doesn't need outside manipulation. He's already close to the edge.
[b]Part 2 - Unnecessary in General[/b]
Every character we know, shady or not, should not be a traitor. We know these people too well that, unless there's a really -blam!-ing good reason, they shouldn't be this supposed killer. Let's say, Shaxx turned out to be the killer. Does anyone have any idea how pissed people would be? Or what about Hawthorne? No one would be pissed but it's still not in her character to do it. Drifter's a killer but he's too important to throw away like this.
See what I mean? Like, is this plot line really something we should throw around, a mere year before Witch Queen, no less? You know, the time where we should be focusing on ENDING her schemes rather than making more of them up? You already have so much to cram into Y4 if you have any chance of finishing Savathun off properly, this should not be one of them.
No Tower character can be this person. It's either not necessary, not possible, not in their character, or will make people angry. This is really dumb. And yet, despite how much I've ranted on this, I still think the Savathun's Song retcon was worse. That one actually bleeds into real life where I have to contend with people making up insane Garden theories that make no sense.
Good day.>
-
Edited by upchief: 10/6/2020 3:03:34 AMZavala knows there are answers, and risk doesn't reap reward, only your luck. When Zavala stands his ground, he is a pillar of autumn. In the back of mind, an open trunk. He knows he can handle himself, it's everyone else, that he's afraid to lose. A shield, a rampart, a palisade.. ..Zavala lets bold respite.. ..I've stood with him. He believes that knowledge is the best tool. Knowing why we fail.. ..brings the toughests answers. [i]-(Over a table at the ramen shop)-[/i] Two cold cubes rolled in a glass of scotch, I take a drink and crunch a rock. [i]"Aye, Aye,.. ..two knocks 'till we're dry." -(all knock wood; for a steady supply of rum)- "There's somethin a fuss.",[/i] I imply... [i].."I'll band with him.. ..until we see-eye to-eye. Then we'll both know too much.. ..and want a piece of the pie."[/i]
-
Edited by upchief: 10/6/2020 2:21:31 AMHopefully I don't end up with a pair of clubs through my own grape of spades. [i]Wow, I hate politics.[/i]
-
1 ReplyEdited by Ferus Lux: 9/24/2020 9:00:30 AMZavala watched the City fall so easily against a non paracausal enemy and in his mind, the Traveler unnecessarily allowed humanity to suffer when it could have broken its cage right away and the Guardians would've overwhelmed the Cabal and baptized Ghaul in light themselves. Zavala is sick of the Traveler's BS, and doesn't have faith in it to protect them again, atleast not without mass casualties. The Pyramids could easily tell Zavala that his enemy was the Traveler all along and that they will personally help him destroy it and then protect humanity with an invincible fleet forever. Zavala will always put humanity first and would take the deal in a heartbeat. Seeing Guardians make a mockery out of enemies with Stasis, that could hold their own against the Light will only reinforce Zavala's change of heart.
-
He's quite obviously not a traitor, idk what YouTuber gave you this idea but they must be either incapable of understanding and comprehending language or just batshit insane. Traveler's Chosen lore tab explains quite clearly that a traitor was stalking him, lol.
-
1 ReplyI don't know..... Zavala would actually be very likely to be a Traitor. In his mind we wouldn't, but to protect the last city at any means........ I think he would. It's been done in history alot. The most loyal ends up betraying out of Fear, Doubt,Concern. It just takes 1 thing in order to plant the Seed of Doubt.
-
2 RepliesPersonally, I think Zevdaya is already a traitor, although not on purpose. He has obviously fallen for Heairess Moan and doesn't see her for who she truly is. HM spent years w the Crotas which means she either is willingly on their side or she has that Stockton syndrome. In any event, Heiress Moan definitely came back just spy on/manipulate Guardians for the benefit of the Crotas. This being the case, and since he is totally enraptured w HM, Zevdaya is also serving the Crotas but just doesn't know it. Unfortunately, it seems like Guardian leadership is easily led astray by the personal feelings. It's the same way Ikona ignored all the signs about Old Silas just because he was her mentor. Now, being that she is locked up in the side tower, and no one listens to her anymore, Zevdaya is the only leader. So basically, the Crotas are already running everything and Zevdaya is a traitor but doesn't know it. At this point, the only real hope we have is that the Queen of the Woke people will break free from that prison/ball that Preta has her locked in. If this happens she may be able to use some of her woke magic to start setting things straight. Otherwise, it seems all might already be lost.
-
Never. I will not allow it. Circumstances may come to pass where we may not agree on things, but controversy is what seperates us in to standing by our beliefs. Whatever happens, we must remain vigilant for the truth. As well as each other.
-
2 RepliesWhat happened with Savathun's Song?
-
2 RepliesEdited by Starlight Raven: 9/16/2020 3:21:20 PMYou forget that character development in this game is like a brick. The only interesting thing would be my theory about our origin, or lack of one, but only conceptually. Also, Savathun will not end with the "start" of Witch Queen. She is the new Calus after all.
-
Also, my money is on Tess . She has been killing my Bank account.
-
The IO pyramid ship DDOS Rasputin . Reported!!!!
-
Should have been cayde's chicken
-
Wether he needs pushing or not festering core strike with the exchange between Eros and Zavala about savathun should be remembered
-
I think it's going to be Uldren, he's a kinderguardian that's been shunned and forced to live in the shadows so it makes sense for him to be easily corrupted. There will likely be a quest line where we have to search for him and he will become the new Hunter vanguard, then in a later DLC when we actually fight Savathun he will turn traitor
-
Awesome points on Zavala and I totally agree. But I also think it would be good if Savathûn used the state he’s in to manipulate him and his decisions, either pushing him to the breaking point or just nudging him in the direction she wants. As for the “killer hidden in plain sight” I believe it doesn’t necessarily mean someone who has murdered or is going to murder someone (in which case Drifter would be the top candidate simply for being the one with a history of murder). The phrase could just mean a threat or enemy. I think this could be referring to Zavala, like how Eris‘s thoughts turned to the Vanguard. But perhaps it was directly referring to the Ahamkara skull and the being looking though it (most likely Savathûn).
-
1 ReplyFrom a functional gameplay perspective, I don't think we'll have any [i]useful[/i] Tower Vendors disappear. Zavala does strikes, Ikora could replace him but as you say, Zavala's betrayal/manipulation is unnecessary. Shaxx is the only Crucible vendor we have on a permanent basis. Sure Saladin jumps in for Iron Banner, but he's been irrelevant since RoI story-wise (except for context surrounding the Felwinter lore). Replacing Shaxx would mean overhauling the Crucible as he does all the voice lines. Saint does Trials and Osiris won't be stepping into that role. Plus we just bought him back so he's safe. Drifter is a central character to Beyond Light (or so it seems rn) and he's the only Gambit vendor. Also unlikely rn. That leaves largely irrelevant vendors like Banshee, Hawthorne, Ikora, Holliday and Rahool. Ikora is the only guardian among them (thus really the only threat) and there has been no focus on her recently, so a betrayal from her would be a massive wtf moment. Seems like the only viable characters for an in-Tower character betrayal would be Zavala (assuming Ikora replaces his function) and Drifter, given his nature. However, Drifter looks to be a core character for the foreseeable future, and the continuation of Gambit renders him an unlikely character to go AWOL.
-
I mean, I don’t think it’s Shaxx; he don’t seem to be losing faith anytime soon. I think is either Ikora or Big Blue. Ikora: She is always watching the Traveler, and it has been obvious that she is losing faith. From her dialogue to her actions, she’s questioning the Traveler. Zavala: Always watching the Traveler, he too appears to be losing faith as time progresses. The only thing is that the tab mentions this person giving The Guardian a token. Ikora hasn’t given us anything in years, Zavala have us the gun. It is said that the Guardian doesn’t yet understand the purpose of the token, so the token might be Travelers Chosen.
-
1 ReplyIt makes sense from a story narrative perspective as it is unexpected, also i believe the Zavala voice actor's contract is supposed to be up some time soon. Plus there was the lore tab not long ago in which Zavala and Ikora through out the idea of removing the Vanguard from its position as they both felt the vanguard had become a pointless figure head, but the collective disagreed. I do agree that there are countless other characters that would make a better wolf in sheeps clothing, but if we find ourselves agreeing with and even allying with the pyramid ships, i could totally see Zavala losing his cool and going psyco since he whole heartedly believes in the traveler and is unwilling to accept the idea that the darkness isnt evil or bad.
-
I could’ve handled it
-
4 RepliesI have 2 people in mind for being a traitor and Zavala isn't one of them. It's either going to be 1 of them in my theory.......which is off the top of my head. 1) Shaxx - Has an Ahamkara Skull close at hand, has heard The Moon song and apparently it corrupts or something according to Eris. 2) Eris Morn - She died on the moon, Savathun is using her body as a vessel (the perfect Taken) and in the ultimate prank has been hiding right infront of us. Eris knows far too much about the Hive and about near enough every Ascendant Hive. Crota / Oryx / Savathun / Xivu A'rash. She knows wayyyy to much to be just all found out on the moon or via her "rock".
-
1 ReplyWait. Zavala turned traitor? When? I must’ve missed a cutscene or something because I didn’t know that
-
I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes rogue. Like badass rogue. Like he almost becomes a vigilante. Would be pretty cool to see a stone hard, ruff gear Zavala out in the wilds
-
I don't think there is a traitor at all, at least for the time being. It's not the first time a lore tab has outright lied to us (lest we forget Savathun laughing at the guy who first reached 999 power).
-
13 RepliesOh, I hope Aunor becomes the traitor now that you've said that. A character we've never even SEEN in person suddenly getting shoehorned into a role like that? That would be terrible. I hope they do it!
-
Zavala may be close to the edge. Savathun just needs to give him that little push. He either needs to become an authoritarian dictator and take up New Monarchys offer, or abandon everything he knows. I do not think that he will join the darkness unless his moral code or broken and it turns to resentment. I feel it will be more of a "you can't trust anyone, you have to do it yourself".
-
I haven't kept up with the lore all that well, to be honest, but from what I have seen, I don't understand why people think someone is going to betray us. Somewhat unrelated note, though; what's this Savathun's Song retcon OP mentioned? I haven't noticed it at all, though I might just be being stupid.