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Edited by Oftly:
6/4/2020 2:21:47 AM
68
Eriana's Vow is the best argument against Sunsetting.
2 things people claim Sunsetting solves:
1) Power Creep
2) Balance
Eriana's Vow is by far the best weapon to use in Grandmaster Nightfalls. It has anti-barrier rounds, a 9 round magazine, auto-loading holster, 38 rounds in reserves, and it does more damage than 90 rpm sniper rifles.
The only way to get people to stop using Eriana's Vow is by either nerfing it (balance) or by introducing a better weapon (power creep), both of which sunsetting is supposed to solve all on its own.
Exotics aren't being sunset and we still need to balance weapons or risk power creep. So what is the point of sunsetting if the same issues persist?
If you say that Bungie can just balance the OP exotic, I AGREE WITH YOU. I'm just saying that they can also BALANCE OP LEGENDARIES.
Example:
Revoker - Precision kills transfer any ammo the enemy drops to your reserves.
Recluse - Buff precision damage only.
One weapon just proved how flimsy and ineffectual sunsetting is. It doesn't make me want to get new gear, it makes me not care about gear. I went from playing 30 hours a week to 3. I should be excited about the big expansion, instead, I'm considering skipping it.
As a veteran player, this reminds me of what happened in D2Y1. I didn't like any of the changes, but I bought the game anyway. I refuse to do that again.
English
#destiny2
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Lol with a scavenger mod you can basically main it as a normal hand cannon. Not to mention it 1 taps heads in an empowering rift. By far the best special monument gun
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1 ReplySo tell me how new players get their hands on one of those bad boys?
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1 ReplyErianas isn’t OP. It’s a niche exotic that excels against champions which is where it was intended. It’s the best in class in ordeal nightfalls. But that’s where it’s reign ends. Switch to other activities. Gambit- theres countless exotics that are better in every scenario from add clear to invading. You rarely see this thing here. Raids- I have never seen a Eriana Grande in any raid I’ve run. The exotic dps kings reign supreme. Crucible- it’s good with a bow. But what do you see more of? Chap, coil, suros, hardlight, or Erianas? I don’t like sunsetting at all but your basis for this argument here seems to have a faulty premise.
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To be honest, I think it’s time to phase out champions or give us universal Anti Barrier, Unstoppable, and Overload mods. My nightfall load out this whole Season has been an Unstoppable Hand cannon, Erianas Vow, and an overload sword. In these upper level Nightfalls, keeping distance between you and these Anti Barrier Champions is a lot safer than running in with an side arm or SMG. Last Season I at least was able to use a Pulse Rifle or Scout Rifle from a distance to take down the barrier. This season is all Erianas Vow for me since it’s the only Anti Barrier you can really use from a distance. These mods are very restrictive and sun setting could amplify that issue.
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Imagine being a phone company. Say you’re apple, and you keep developing new phones, new products hoping to get customers to buy. However, customers aren’t coming, they don’t care, because they don’t need new phones. Their old phones are already very powerful and nostalgic, customers have been using them for 1, 2 and even 3 years at this point. Your company puts in all this work and creativity all to be ignored for old-gen devices. So what do you do? Intentionally slow down the old phones? Deliberately making them less powerful? Well, you’ve been doing that for years and it never fails to earn plenty backlash from the customer base. Make the new phones that much more powerful, strong enough to replace, well that is unsustainable because you don’t have the technology or infrastructure to support that kind of increase in power. So how about we discontinue the old devices altogether in order to open up the creative horizons as much as possible, in order to promote device diversity, in order to feel like the work you’ve been putting in for months is worth a damn because people are finally coming to buy. Worth a try, right? In all honesty, this will probably be a better solution to nerfing the best weapons. Nerfed weapons get left behind by newer, more powerful ones (sunsetted if you will), and may never again be worth using. At least legitimately Sunsetting will keep our current favorite weapons powerful in the activities they were designed to be used in, whereas that is usually not the case with nerfs. Note*: It’s amazing what can happen when people of differing opinions can converse in a civilized manner without constantly firing off at each other’s personality, skill, age, experience, etc.
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1 ReplyLol. #noonecares
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Its coming embrace or quit its that simple, you ain't gonna change their minds on sunsetting
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2 RepliesOr just buff snipers a smidge. Or change the eriana perk so that it increases fire rate instead of damage. And it's not that serious with Grandmasters or even Masters. My crew did most of them without it or only 1. But now days everyone is stuck on use the absolute top tier or you're wrong. Also Recluse and Revoker were way more busted than Eriana ever will be. Good ridance to those two. Especially Revoker. Prime example of how they have to sunset because it and Beloved would be the only two used for the rest of the game because they screwed up on design.
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7 RepliesEriannas is overrated... there are better choices in GMs if you have the skill and other weapons.
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This for future gear preparation so the new gear doesn't become problematic. It makes the progression unconfusing if all legendaries sunset. How confusing for players would it be for season 12 weapons to sunset when your Season 5 weapons don't?
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2 RepliesActually all you need to do it let other special weapons equip champion mods. Problem solved.
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6 Replies"Revoker - Precision kills transfer any ammo the enemy drops to your reserves. Recluse - Buff precision damage only." They need to fall off and disappear.
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Vow will always be useful because of the presence of champions. Exotics that do not have the ability to efficiently deal with champions have been on the wayside since seasonal mods were introduced. The moment other exotics can use seasonal mods/champions can be dealt with without mods in an easier fashion Vow will drop massively in usage.
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12 RepliesEven if MoA only buffed precision shots, Recluse is still going to be pretty powerful. Aiming for the head isn't hard lol. Same for Revoker. You can't really do much to it without breaking it (Hell, Revoker already breaks Crucible to an extent). No other sniper in the game is comparable to it. RoF is basically infinite Mulligan as long as you miss shots in-between. If anything, having the bullets go back to reserves is hardly a nerf, you're still getting that extra bullet back no matter what. I'm not completely on board for Sunsetting (the problem for me is the armor). But you have to think about it; would you honestly use anything else vs the gear you already have?
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2 RepliesI'm against weapon retirement. Period. It's killing the (to me) single biggest factor that separates this game from most looter shooters, mechanically speaking. I see where the OP is coming from. EV is a very powerful tool for guardians and has become a staple of Master level instance running. Looks cool too, but it's not the only example of an exotic that fits best in slot. To me the theory holds up with one important caveat - if the point is to get us to use more varied gear then i'd say we can expect to see more exotics with anti-champion ability and/or more varied types of champion. To me both would be a welcome change but a cold consolation to the loss of the bulk of my armoury.
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6 RepliesPower Creep is the biggest fallacy behind sunsetting. For starters what's being called power creep here? because it feels the whole thing is more aimed towards the weapon meta, which is always varying and there will always be a best weapon for something, that's how the gear in every goddamn rpg'ish game work, either introduced or old. What really bothers me here is the fact that they can make the returning weapons expansion or season pass exclusives, effectively reselling stuff to me that I already paid for (I got the game on release along with the season pass and all the expansions), using a broken argument such as power creep. Every rpg game has power creep, it has to, you have to be growing in power, otherwise there's no progression.
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5 RepliesPower creep is a bull shit reason that Bungie is using to sell Sunsetting to the fan boys. The only weapons it applies to is pinnacle weapons so why sunset all legendary weapons and our armour on top of that? So each season they can reintroduce old stuff and get us grinding for it again and again.
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20 RepliesEdited by PapaSubpar: 6/3/2020 7:38:29 PMExotic are not being sunset YET. However, I am sure they are trying to figure out a way to take them away from us, so they can force us to grind for them all over again.
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Nerf a weapon that is only being used 2 seasons after it's release, and only because they nerfed snipers...yeah sounds like bungie. I've used Erianas since it came out, because it further legitimized my sword, bow, revolver space cowboy ninja build. But it's really not OP, just better than most secondary exotics in peek shoot situations.but in raw damage it actually isn't going to wow you, it's a good gun to thump strike majors and shielded minors, but in harder content it falls off alot. It is very unforgiving with little bullet magnetism, but hits are rewarded immensely, the avg FPS guy will do well with Erianas. So you see it more, but people looking for peak damage, or niche builds like you would see from the MMO crowd, in that category it is pretty middle of the pack.
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There was a thousand dollar tournament for GM nightfalls - team that won used divinity and izanagi, not eriana's vow. The weapon isn't overpowered in the least. It gets used a lot because it's the only ranged anti-barrier option this season. Also, I have the conqueror title and didn't use eriana's that much. Used anarchy and mountaintop way more. What bungie needs to do is: 1. Have more exotics with champion mods (eg arbalest should have antibarrier) and erianas would see less use. 2. Always have a mix of short and long range weapons that take champion mods any given season. No one in their right mind would take up their exotic slot with EV if they could use a long range primary on barrier champions. Also, what Haunter said below re sunsetting is completely right.
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Sounds more like a reason why exotics need to be sunset as well
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2 RepliesThe point is that exotics [i]should[/i] be all-around unique and powerful, especially in their given context (like Eriana's Vow), and legendaries should [i]never[/i] be on par with or even above exotics in terms of overall power/ability. In conjunction with a stale loot pool with no incentive to pursue new weapons, pinnacle weapons truly broke this game. They should have been exotics from the beginning; but Bungie broke their own rules regarding gear tiers, just like they did for Reckoning and supers. And now here we are. The truth is, you don't care about getting new gear to begin with - you just don't want to lose your old gear. And I get that. But this argument doesn't work, and neither does the "kills the grind" argument.
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Edited by WormChi: 6/4/2020 6:13:17 PMAgreed. This game needs more frequent balance passes - not removing 80% percent off of loot from the game. I say just sunset the pinnacles admit the mistake and move on. Instead they are going to sunset all of our Groll weapons which we grinded thousands of hours for and our armor sets so they can sell more seasons passes.
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Edited by Veldrin: 6/4/2020 1:48:38 PMAmen. I still don't understand why they excluded exotics from sunsetting. Either do not sunset at all and balance instead OR sunset everything (yes, including EVERY exotic, including exotic armors to make it fair). But the half-baked sunsetting doesn't resolve anything.
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62 RepliesThere is no power creep and things like astral or summoner prove new gear still gets used when it's good. The actual reason these changes are being made are 1) Bungie want people to be forced to use the latest gear without putting in the effort to make new gear good on its own - this way they can be lazier then ever with regard to what perks should roll on x new gun for it to see use and just slap on anything and if people don't like it they're forced to use it anyway due to its power. 2) Bungie want to bring back all this content later and make players regrind things they already grinded for years ago - giving players the illusion the new content is huge while costing Bungie 0 and prolonging player time when they regrind for spare rations for the 4th time
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24 RepliesExotics are the exception to sunsetting by design, they are meant to be powerful weapons and armor that allow you to do things outside of the norm. Exotics are balanced by the fact that you can only equip one at a time. Probably the best example of this is to look at a very popular D1Y1 loadout: Fatebringer, Black Hammer, and Gjallarhorn. This set of weapons was by far the best loadout for most activities, to the point where it was incredibly overpowered. Fatebringer was a "god roll" handcannon with elemental damage (which was unique to raid weapons) and Black Hammer completely avoided the reload mechanic making it top tier for DPS (even after the nerf). Going into D1Y2, something had to be done, so both Fatebringer and Black Hammer were sunset. Both of these weapons ended up returning in the form of Fatebringer (Adept) and Black Spindle, both being Exotics. The weapons themselves did not necessarily break the game, it was the combination of all 3 weapons that broke the game. In D2Y3, I would argue that the similar popular loadout is Mountaintop, Recluse, and Anarchy. This loadout is entirely overpowered and needs to be sunset similar to the D1Y1 loadout. Even though Anarchy is the most powerful of the 3 it does not need to be sunset because you are limited to one Exotic per loadout. As for Eriana's Vow, it has very high utility in GM Nightfalls, but mostly due to the options for Barrier weapons this season. Back in Season of Dawn, hardly anyone used EV because they had long range options, and the same would hold true if GM Nightfalls were around last season. EV is very unique which allows it to be top tier in niche situations, however, it is far from OP (at least for an Exotic).
