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Destiny 2

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4/22/2020 5:35:46 PM
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[SPOILERS] Why This is Too Soon and a Proposed Solution

<I sat in the Io bunker two weeks ago after witnessing Rasputin, the useless Warmind, give us info on the Collapse that I already knew. I stared at the Sol System map and saw the flashing red lights at the end, beyond the Kuiper Belt, already hovering over an unknown planet. It was then that I got ever so slightly worried. Last week, I found myself once again staring at that map in the Io bunker. It's not that the Io bunker was the only one to have that map, it's just that it was more visually appealing than the barnacle-covered Moon bunker and dirt-smeared EDZ bunker. That and I needed a reason to go to Io in the first place, considering how little I've played the game in the past few weeks. I saw more flashing red lights, and I got worried. Some people shared a similar feeling of dread, but I assure you even fewer had the same reasons that I did. Most of us dreaded their arrival, as Bungie has actually done a really good job of building up the Darkness, just as they had Savathun beforehand. However, I welcomed their arrival... just not now. The feeling of dread increased when I stood in the Io bunker yesterday, and saw them creep into the Kuiper Belt. It turned to fear once I saw a certain leaked cutscene. [b][u]PART 1 - THE RAMBLING[/u][/b] I'm what many would consider an idiot for attempting to combine D1 and D2 lore. I'm also what some would consider a heretic for claiming that many of the plot threads Bungie's left open will go absolutely nowhere (my preferred example, Lysander and the Concordat). Some will disagree when I say that all the Fallen House of Light/Judgement/Devil stuff can wait until the Darkness gets here. Yet one thread that absolutely cannot wait is Savathun, the Witch Queen and current matriarch of the Hive, whether Xivu Arath would admit it or not. Where is she? Well, she seems quite content with the Dreaming City's time loop. The gist of it is that we killed Riven, the last known Ahamkara, who twisted our unconscious wish into a cycle of Blight and time. The Taken Axis Mind, Quria, created the time loop to activate every time Dul Incaru, Savathun's daughter and leader of the Taken in the DC, dies by our hand. Savathun's eventual goal is to find the Distributary, a black hole that she can exploit to gain a -blam!- ton of power in a short amount of time. The problem comes from the fact that we keep falling into her schemes and that, thanks to Xivu's help, she commands 2/3rds of the entire Hive species (RIP Oryx's broods) on top of the Taken that Oryx left behind. This makes her not only the most immediate threat, but given her tactical prowess, our second-most dangerous enemy. And yet... the franchise's endgame is on its way. Hell, it's technically already here, creeping into the system at insane speeds. The Darkness has come with its Armada. They, the harbingers of death and the eventual extinction of all life in the universe. We knew they were coming, and there was no stopping them, but in my opinion, it's a little too soon. My problems stem from a few factors. The first is size, as the Pyramid Armada is something new, something we haven't faced before that requires new enemies and AI. Bungie continually states that D2 is running out of space, and the Pyramids will inflate that significantly. The second is story, as we still have Savathun. Since Season of Dawn wrapped up CoO's last thread (Saint-14), and Worthy's capitalizing on one of two of Warmind's threads (Rasputin's defense), many have come to the conclusion that this particular season pass is focused on wrapping up D2's DLC storylines. Logically, that makes S11 the end of Forsaken. That would mean the end of the Dreaming City campaign. "Sounds good, maybe we'll just kill Savathun there", you say. Do you know how much story comes with her? Ur, the Ever-Hunger. Quria. Dul Incaru. Xivu Arath. Those are just the big names. There's no way you could end all 5 of them in one season, especially since all of these have been rather bare-bones, Worthy especially. You could end Quria and Dul in one season, especially if we find the latter's Throne World. It would end the curse and Quria could either then end the loop on its own or we kill it. Quria itself also brings with it a number of possibilities, being a Taken Mind with some of its will left intact. It could help us betray Savathun. The big focus here is to blow her plans wide open, which will leave her desperate and vulnerable. S11 could help us do that, but considering her attachments, it would have to be another season or DLC finish her off. By the end of this season, the Almighty would've been destroyed, SIVA would (probably) be back in Rasputin's control, Felwinter would be officially laid to rest, and the Darkness would have made it to Jupiter. That leaves little room for Savathun, unless... [b][u]PART 2 - THE INDEPENDENCE DAY COUNTDOWN[/u][/b] I propose the Pyramids appear in the skyboxes of Io, Nessus, and Titan. Just somewhere in the distance. However, they won't do anything, officially non-hostile for the moment. You see, this gives us a sense of urgency, and by "us" I mean EVERYONE IN THE SYSTEM. The Fallen will be frenzied, the Cabal will be attempting to fight, the Hive will be rushing their plans, and the Vex will be hiding. Any attempts to attack or infiltrate the Pyramids will be deflected by shields and short-range gravity bursts. More messages from them will appear, but no actions will be taken by them. This gives S11 the opportunity to give us a reason why the Dreaming City is suddenly a hotspot, as the City tries to break the curse and the Hive try to kick their plans into gear. Mara wants Osiris to plant a Vex seed, why not plant it in the Dreaming City? Let them break the loop while we find Dul Incaru's Throne World and kill her permanently? Once the loop is broken, push the Hive and Taken back and let Savathun move on to a different plan. Let's say "the Dreadnaught" in this case. Then, when September comes, we'll kill her, and Ur, maybe Quria if it isn't dead, and let Xivu Arath run defeated. This makes sure the Hive are still somewhat of a threat in D3 (or whatever), but not big enough to tag-team us. Assuming they continue the season pass nonsense, they can honestly do whatever for Y4. Nothing will be that important. The Pyramids lie in wait beyond the Reef, and nothing's capable of stopping them. Soon, the countdown will end and they'll move on the City... Well... I think you all know what will happen next. [b]TL:DR[/b] - I hate that Savathun's being shafted and that the story's being rushed, here's one solution to the issue a small minority of the community share>
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  • I can’t believe they changed the pyramid design...again (Nine cutscene). I honestly like the older design better instead of the flashy new one with bright lines all over. Also, as much as I hate it, I think the Unveiling foreshadowed that the vex will be the endgame.

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    • Edited by WormChi: 4/23/2020 9:11:57 AM
      I don’t know it’s been 6 years since we’ve had a completely new race. I say bring it on.

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    • The game is dying sadly, guessing they are forcing out the final bit of the actual story, then tying the loose ends together with it somehow after the fact.

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      • I motion to open a portal to the 40k Universe and find a nice Astartes chapter or two to help us out. [spoiler]Sorry, all out of salt.[/spoiler]

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      • I've seen you mention this a few times, and I do agree from a game play perspective!!! However, from a lore perspective why would we assume that our enemies will be politely queuing up to take their shot at us?? (As a general statement, I should mention) Also, there was mention (speculation) that the hive's undoing will be their loyalty to the darkness (I think the suggestion being that the darkness doesn't care) - perhaps savathun's ending is reliant upon the darkness arriving? (Or at least the plan in motion will unravel) I think that savathun and her sister will only be seen in the final installment of the game - this will be the one moment to end the hive/taken for good!!

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        • Ughhh so much reading......why couldn’t they just added all this cool shit to the game? Even just a cutscene would’ve been better.

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        • [quote]Then, when September comes, we'll kill her, and Ur, maybe Quria if it isn't dead, and let Xivu Arath run defeated.[/quote] Ur, the Ever Hunger? Good luck with that one. If there is any evidence of a worm god being present? It's potentially Titan... and that definitely isn't Ur. My bet is most of the worms are hidden from our wonderings because they are behind the veil the ascendent plane offers them. As for Xivu... my money is on killing Xivu as a precursor to Savathun who will then be sisterless and lineage lost to stay behind. Same DLC.

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          • I agree, it is too soon. I believed that all plot points and all the menaces that they represent were supposed to lead to a final, epic confrontation with the Darkness. That in defeating all minor, side enemies we were supposed to gain the power, the tools and the allies to do the unthinkable: Defeat the Darkness and fulfill our Destiny. But no... it seems that the showdown with the Darkness is being rushed ahead of everything else. Right now, there is no way we can survive much less win. This is the "endgame" I believe that Bungie has in mind: The Fallen will be the eternal scavengers. Always clinging to their past glories. And always raging against an uncaring world. The Cabal will be undone by their own hubris. They are an empire in decline but they can't see it. As in their minds are unable to comprehend it. The Hive fear that Savathun isn't strong enough and that Xivu Arath isn't smart enough to defeat us. Without Oryx, they don't fight like a team. Because of that, they plan to let the Darkness do the heavy lifting; and then they swoop to kick us while we are down. The Vex fight for the strongest side. Normally, that's the Darkness. But they are perfectly willing to play both sides if it suits them. The Nine have an agenda that heavily resembles that of the Vex. Whereas the Vex want their existence to become a law of nature; the Nine want to "become real". And they are willing to seek the answers that they want on both sides of the conflict. Rasputin wants to do his thing on his own terms. He only listens to Ana Bray. Because she is his pet Guardian. As for the Darkness itself it plans to hang ominously, grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks. It's first move will be to betray the Hive on behalf of the Vex. This enables the conclusion of all Hive and Vex storylines. It's second move will be to tell Calus that the end has come. This enables the conclusion of all Cabal and Fallen storylines. As well as all potential Cabal and Fallen allies. It's third move will be to step up with its efforts to convice us to join its side. Here we wage war against Darkness loyal "Guardians" (PVP in our PVE! What a twist!). Emboldened by our loyalty, the Traveller battles the Darkness resulting in a mutual kill. Due to their natures both still exist in their respective ascendant realms. It's final move will be TO GET MAD and instigate a Second Collapse. During the Second Collapse we survive by: Destroying the crippled Pyramid Armada whose capital ship was destroyed by the Traveller. And then we keep fighting back until we come back from the brink. I believe that the biggest secret of the Darkness is that it "always wins" because: It defines itself as the Final Shape that "always wins". If you manage to merely defeat it... the resulting contradiction causes it TO KILL ITSELF. And that's the ending. In fact with the way in which everything is being rushed, I wonder: Is there going to be a Destiny 3?

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          • It really just feels like (to me that is) Bungie is just wrapping it all up (for good or bad with the stories available to us) and putting the game to bed. I used to think there would be a D3 but I think we are just in the final stretch. Bungie seems to realize that a game the scope and size of Destiny is just not feasible with a company of their size. We are playing a game that provides an income resource (Eververse) until they release their new IP on new consoles and PC. They can’t just abandon that which is paying salaries but I really feel like this is coming to the end. Maybe that’s not great but even a bad end is better than no ending at all with a complete abandoning of the game.

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          • I have a wild theory so hold on and think about this insane thought for a moment: What if the ships come a few at a time and suddenly so many of our activities begin to shut down: Forges, the Menagerie and the Reckoning. Also; the Dreaming City would no longer be accessible. This would be Bungies way of justifying the removal of content (and pulling all that extra loot) in preparation for the new endgame material.

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            • I agree, the pyramid ships are too soon. What’s going on with Uldren? Savathun? Any number of other things? I mean I am excited to see a new race but I figured we wouldn’t see it till D3. D3 needs to be massive and be on next gen hardware running 60fps on console. I hope they don’t screw this up.

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              • Not so fast my friend cause there is a new Cabal ready to circle around that story for another lap or two as well.....

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                • I hope not ...but, it's gonna be a strike similar to xol

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                • Quality post as always Archival. I've also felt that we're moving too fast with the Pyramids and have been hoping that they simply stand back and watch us for the time being. Considering that we still have to deal with the planet-sized tuning fork the Cabal launched at us, it would be interesting if they are just waiting to see how we deal with it.

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                • All i got from this is that OP likes to look at shiny lights.

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                  • I'm going to be Honest, the hive are my least favorite enemy race. Granted, I still love them, which goes to show how awesome the story telling in Destiny has been (at least behind the scenes), but I would have no qualms if we just went on a Saint-14 style crusade, but against the entire Hive Pantheon. I'm still with Osiris and Kabr, considering the Vex as our biggest threat. Say we defeat the darkness: The Hive are powerless, Calus is powerless; That leaves the Fallen which are tearing themselves apart, the Cabal which are still trying to actually fill the power vacuum, and the Vex . . . which we've dealt no real, irreparable damages to. So, while many of your points are valid, I absolutely do not think that the Fallen House dispute can wait "Until after the darkness". Personally, I hated that they just did away with Fallen Houses in d2 - probably my most hated changeover from D1.

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                    • Edited by CresterOts: 4/23/2020 6:59:35 AM
                      Too soon. My original hope was it was just a scout force. To test us. Maybe it still is....maybe they're just the small ships that got here first. Maybe it's The Winnowers way of showing us why we should take their side. Feels like a rush job. Lysander and The Concordat Remnants still out and about. Efrideets Pacifists Group out there. Deep Stone Crypt. Yul & The Other Wormgods Taox. Savathun Xivu Arath. Quria. Dul Incaru. Otzot Caiatl Umun Arath Mithrax & House Light Eramis & House Devils Variks & House Judgement Fikrul (The Fanatic) & Scorn Toland Praedyth Exo Stranger Drifters Dark Creatures in containment The Nine The Aphelion The Jovians Edit: Forgot Uldren There's so much shit left.

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                      • The only race to see an actual conclusion is the fallen and the house of light Vex - probably gonna conclude with the destruction of the darkness, however that doesn't make sense. We would need to find a true vex control unit to destroy them Cabal - don't really know. We have calus' daughter, which is still a threat, but honestly we may just become an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal Hive - like you said, we still have xivu and savathun, along with the worm Gods, and maybe even oryx still because we don't know what happened to touch of malice (at least i don't know) I don't mind the darkness coming, but we can't outright destroy the darkness yet. I like the idea of a second collapse, and bungie really bringing in a blank slate

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                        • Unrelated note: I think I saw you at the tower the other day

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                        • I wholeheartedly agree, savathune should absolutely be the main threat at this current point in time However since the pyrimids are coming it's gonna set a lot of other storylines into motion. Specifically those related to Mara sov, more on that later

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                        • Watch bungie go and screw up the lore and say that Savathun is the leader of the pyramid ships. That would just be the most Bungie move

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                          • At this point, I feel like the Destiny universe is on its last legs; I doubt a D3 will end up happening. Bungie has decided to pull the plug, and is rushing to finish off the main overarching storyline of Light/Darkness so they have an excuse to kill the franchise and move on to their other project. Honestly, can’t blame em. With all the (mostly well-deserved) shit they get for this game, I can’t say I wouldn’t decide it’s easier to just trash it, and hide for a few years while quietly brewing a hopefully successful comeback game.

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                            • You cannot assume the story is being rushed when its not out yet. You're assuming the DLC will conclude the story. if anything your post highlights how good of a job bungie does at starting a story and not finishing it for years. We very well could deal with the darkness for many years before its resolved. TTK came out 5 years ago and the story is still not even remotely done.

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                              • Like it really matters what these pyramid ships are an who they bring, it will be another story that goes nowhere an is poorly executed, the last 7 months of them so called tieing the story together has been laughable, so I wouldn't get your hopes up that it will change with this pyramid ships as they are showing on there own they aren't capable of delivering anything note worthy.

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                              • Don't worry, the Pyramids are our salvation, they're just coming to be our new bros.

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                              • You forgot to adress the fact that many people think titan will be deleted. As well as the many other story lines that haven’t been wrapped up yet. There’s still the monster on titan There’s still more weapons of sorrow There’s still the vex, doing vexing things that might ruin it all There’s still Calus, who doesn’t want to be in the way of the darkness There’s still caiatl There’s still the fanatic, probably planning something There’s still SIVA, which may or may not actually get under Rasputin’s control Etc The pyramid ships are waaaaay too early

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