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Edited by Gemini Trash: 2/27/2020 4:30:12 PM
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Or just don't make Legendary loot drop with the same values as blue loot. That might make them more valuable. Some of my raid gear dropped 70points base, what am I gonna do with that 52 point shit. However the real kicker for pvp loot is it just looks like shit, have you seen the warlock armor? I'd rather sit in sand spurs than wear that trash. Solstice of Heroes gear is much more handsome Edit: inspect my warlock, that's my favorite gear
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    Well that would work with armor, sure. But weapons? Weapons would still be immediately sharded from season to season unless they were better than the previous meta. They may be fun to some players and kept for that reason, but their value is determined from their effectiveness within the game. That's what drives chasing loot. If the effectiveness doesn't match or exceed that of the previous season, it's value diminishes. By making new gear have a greater power cap, that adds effectiveness within the endgame, and therefore value.

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  • See you say "better", but better is subjective to the user, some like powerful weapons and others just like something that's reliable and easy to use. Recluse is evidence of the latter as it is and was the least powerful in class, but it awarded body shot damage as essentially crit damage. Calus Mini-Tools with Surrounded and Grave Robber was the more powerful weapon, better at keeping ammo as well as circumventing the need to reload, and longer range. People just glorified the recluse because the felt like there was no effect involved in it's use post SK.

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    Better is subjective, but in general, players tend toward the most effective weapons. On top of that, players tend towards the weapons with a high effectiveness vs risk/effort ratio. Recluse was used pre-nerf so much because it's bodyshot damage was unmatched across all other SMGs. It was the best, hands down, and it required very little skill or effort to activate. Sure, there were and currently are weapons that do more crit damage than it, but pre-nerf Recluse couldn't be matched. Now Recluse does less body shot and crit damage than some, but it still has the easiest use and lowest risk in it's class. But Recluse just proves my point. Nobody even remotely put it down for another SMG until a sandbox change drove that adjustment. Pre-nerf Recluse was so good there was zero reason to use any other SMG.

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  • I always thought of recluse as mild and I gave you my reasons. I never once felt a want to use recluse when I had my god roll Hero's Burden and my Ikelos SMG. Ikelos paired especially well with The Mountaintop. People will revolve around the weapons that make them feel as if their perks are doing work, so few perks really make feem the difference, prime examples "Dynamic Sway Reduction and Zen Moment. Trash perks

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    Zen moment is awesome for PvP, but that's an opinion. As for Recluse, uou can have that opinion. That's fine. You do you. Your opinion isn't representative of the actions of the rest of the community. Pre-nerf Recluse had one of the highest precision DPS values (that lasted indefinitely as long as you got kills) and 100% had the most bodyshot DPS (also indefinite) of all primaries. And that's math. That is 100% fact. Pair that with the highest ease of use you can get, and it was insane. If you didn't like it, that's for you. I didn't either. But objectively speaking, it was the best primary in terms of consistent damage output by no small margin. A large portion of the community cares about that, so there really wasn't a reason for them to be excited about any loot that wasn't as good as Recluse, until it got nerfed. And even now, all people did was move on to the next best thing. That best thing, whatever it may be, will last for seasons, diminishing the value of any future loot that doesn't match up, unless it's capped. That is the point of all of this. Prevent one weapon or one build from overshadowing future loot and diminishing the value of future loot. And adding the cap is the only realistic way to do it.

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  • You can't just try to state something as fact and expect it to br without doing your homework. Recluse had one benefit after SK released, and that was body shot damage nearly, matching crit damage after Bungie's first nerf. Originally it did 50% with MoA active, later 25% with body and crit being identical. Outside of that Recluse had a bad reload (Feeding Frenzy helped), shitty range, average stability and was terrible with ammo consumption. Where as something like Calus Mini-Tool with FullBore/RicochetRounds/GraveRobber/Surrounded had better stability, better range, Grave Robber kept you mag full as well as Surrounded rewarding you 40% bonus damage (substantially more than MoA's 25%). So, let's, not act like a mediocre SMG was, the best dang gun in D2. It just forgave you for being a scrub, and hitting a body when you should've been hittin' that crit

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    You're entire post is irrelevant. I'm not talking about post SK. I specifically said pre-nerf Recluse. Try reading once in a while before you start spewing your mouth.

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  • I mention both stats blueberry. You can't read?

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  • Edited by Wes: 2/28/2020 1:07:29 AM
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    You're still wrong. Recluse, pre-nerf, did the most consistent damage simply because of it's massive bodyshot boost. Fact. (KEYWORD IS "CONSISTENT.") So guess what people are gonna use? Especially on controller? The weapon with more ease of use and virtually identical crit damage, and substantially more body shot damage. PRE-SHADOWKEEP, that was the case POST-SHADOWKEEP, there had been a sandbox change that DROVE players to other options, AS I ALREADY MENTIONED. Hopefully the caps cleared it up for you.

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  • Pre-nerf recluse was killclip that forgave you a reload, it didn't do extra body damage until Bungie rebalanced it for Shadowkeep. You're clearly new

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    That's the most false thing I've ever seen. MoA brought the body shot damage all the way up to the precision damage. Normal: 19 per crit and 11 per body With MoA: 25 per crit and 25 per body Go watch a pre-Shadowkeep video and educate yourself. Come back after. Here's a link: https://youtu.be/fFaD19tlJ2k

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  • After Shadowkeep that is true. Before it false. You can check the October patch notes blueberry. They made that change deliberately and released the notes prior to SK Release

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    Look at the date of that video. 11 months. 11 MONTHS. Shadowkeep came out October. That's hard facts right in front of you and you're too ignorant to watch a video.

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  • There's no video? And sure, shadowkeep released October 1st

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    I posted a link to a video that is from 11 MONTHS AGO that showed VIDEO PROOF of 25 damage to the body and 25 damage to the head. Here it is again: https://youtu.be/fFaD19tlJ2k

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  • The like wasn't in your last, and so it does, that's fine. Still doesn't change my views of the weapon, you get better results with other weapons if you aim. That's like saying Precision scouts are better the High-Impacts because they do better body damage. They aren't, just aim

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    No it isnt. 900 RPM at the same damage as crits means you don't have to hit crits. So Recluse had both ease of use AND similar DPS to other SMGs with none of the precison requirement. Unless you hit 100% crits while holding down the trigger of an SMG (not happening on console), Recluse did more overall damage. Fact. That's math. So again I have to use the word "consistent." Recluse consistently did more damage than other SMGs. Yeah. If you hit 100% crits and ALWAYS had surrounded active, sure. More damage [i]can[/i] happen. But [i]realistically[/i], that's not gonna happen. Recluse needed a singular kill to get almost identical precison damage output to a surrounded SMG and vastly superior bodyshot damage output. It had MORE ease of use with virtually identical precison damage and MORE bodyshot damage. A tiny bit of bonus precison damage that only matters if you hit 100% crits isnt enough to make Mini Tool a better gun. For you? Sure. Fine. For 99% of controller players? No. There just isn't wasn't an objective reason to choose any SMG over Recluse when you break it down into those categories: 1. Precison damage 2. Bodyshot damage 3. Ease of use Recluse pretty much ties with number 1 and blatantly wins 2 and 3. Does that mean you're wrong for not liking it? No. Absolutely not. What it did mean for the majority of players was that Recluse was so good it eliminated any potential value to be found in any other primary, hence why Recluse at one point had a 95%+ usage rate in endgame activities. That's my point. I could not care less about your SMG preferences. Guns becomes powerful, and if the best stick around, the only future weapons that become valued are the ones that meet or exceed the standard set by the current best, unless the best gets nerfed or capped. That's what happened with Recluse vs other SMGs. That's what happened with Ikelos shotgun vs other shotties. That's what happened with the Leviathan hand cannon before we got other hand cannons. That's what happened in D1 with Fatebringer (until they retired it). That's what happened with grenade launchers. Hopefully you get that. Cause I think I'm done here. Have a good one.

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  • Unless you had either surrounded or rampage which did significantly mor damage 🙄 Idk why you blueberries glorify mid-tier weapons like this. It's fine if you enjoyed the weapon, but dang it's not even that serious. This is why nerfs happen so often

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