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10/16/2019 11:18:48 AM
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Nope, as has been commented on every post so far, this would give less replayability, less variety, less balance and less fun. Its as simple as that.
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Compulsively repeating content over and over again isn't replayability and it's not like this is an mmo where there needs to be other masses of people playing in parallel to you in order for you to enjoy the content. Not that there's any reason to replay older content in this game as it is anyway. Ornaments don't harm variety anymore than armor sets do since people will look for good rolls on their favorite sets since all armor besides exotics are basically interchangeable except for their aesthetics regardless of whether they're ornaments. It doesn't affect balance since it's ornamental, and it's not like Bungie is a serious developer who cares about marrying cosmetics and gameplay. They have MTX to sell. Less fun is quantifiable how exactly?
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Already responded to all those comments and easilly explained why this is wrong in a post somewhere in this thread.
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Hey pure! Your response sounds like PURE Bullshit.
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It's a good thing I don't care about someone who doesn't take 5 seconds to expand their knowledge from someone knows more than them on a subject.
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Someone who truely didn’t care wouldn’t reply. Seems Like you didn’t unlock the trials ornaments so you don’t want those who did to out dress you.
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Feel free to repost your answers here, I won't hunt yours down for you.
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Or you could take a gander before asking a question I've already answered
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I didn't ask any questions I simply addressed each of your assertions as to why armor shouldn't be ornamental. Feel free to respond likewise.
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And I already disproved your assertions before you commented, so clearly you cannot be bothered to read them.
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How can I read what hasn't been posted? Just copy paste, friend. Although if you were to repost your response to me I would hope you'd reformat it appropriately in the context of my post so that I can clearly tell which points your attempting to disprove.
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It has been posted. Please try again.
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No, I don't think I will.
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[quote]Nope, as has been commented on every post so far, this would give less replayability, less variety, less balance and less fun. Its as simple as that.[/quote] less replayability only after you've gotten a full set of armor with the best rolls and stats you want, which for most people even hardcore players will take a long while. I also can't remember in destiny history when people just stopped playing altogether after they got everything they were chasing. Also also, new seasons are a thing and will have new armor sets, new raids and new artifacts. this "replayability" argument is daft and somewhat selfish. theres no harm in players wanting to look a certain way.
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Edited by Pure: 10/18/2019 2:31:52 PMWhat do you mean? I already have perfectly rolled pvp and pve gear sets. Took me about 10 minutes of spamming tokens at the Leviathan vendor lol. All high stat rolls. If we were to use your system of ornaments, why would I ever play the raid again? I have the raid armor so now I have all the ornaments, so now I can make my god roll sets look however I want and never touch the raid ever again? Sounds like a bad idea to me. And look, I know not everyone has 8000 leviathan tokens but the hardcore players do, and thats the main point. Hardcore players are the only ones that WANT to stick with the game. They WANT that replability. They WANT to min-max with god roll sets. Casual players could not care less, nor would it even impact them at all. Its not like having god-roll stats [i]really [/i]changes gameplay all that much in PvE, sure you can make some more interesting builds but its not game-changing or anything, especially for casuals who do not bother with content that may actually benefit from high stat rolls. People can look however they want to look, like.. right now. They can do it. Will they have tier 10 stats in ever bar? No... but casuals do not care about that one bit. Once they replayed their strike for the 20th time and finished the quests, they will just stop playing regardless. So they may as well get whatever armor they want to use and use it. It makes no difference if it has a 52 stat roll or a 60.
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up vote for using "could not care less" and not "could care less" but i know for a fact the plenty of people have gotten god roll everything they want for every activity and guess what they did, they kept playing the game, they kept playing the raids. why did they do it? because they have fun playing the game, either just hanging with friends or helping others who have never done raids and other end game activities. i seriously don't think anyone would just stop playing an activity simply because the armor set for it is already an ornament they have access to, people will only stop playing it if it is boring to them or too tedious for their time. and your argument is all about, this will negatively affect hardcore players, which this game caters to pretty well and thats why i said this is a somewhat selfish argument.
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Oh sure, I'm not saying there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to play somthing without incentive, but in a looter game it usually IS that incentive that drives replayability. It doesn't need to be much. One example is my team love raiding, we like playing together but its hard to get people together when there is no incentive. Last season we non-stop replayed the prestige year 1 raids because they had one very small incentive: bright engrams. We wanted to stock up on bright dust for this season and the Contendors Shell has a chance to drop engrams (actually quite a lot) so every week we'd get together and do a bunch of them. Thats all it took. Now, engrams dont dismantle into bright dust and since most of us already have every single item in there, whats the point... for us there isn't one. We no longer play the year 1 raids. I just think its a shame to let content with a ton of effort and time put into it like a raid be essentially useless so soon after a dlc drop when there is such an easy way to keep it relavent for longer, armor. I honestly disagree that hardcore players are catered to 'pretty well'. Bungie actually did a developer talk about how they make content for different audiences which you can find online. Theres also the matter of casual players leaving no matter what you throw at them. Simply put - some people will play the main story line and thats it, thats all they wanted, they are happy and they will leave. Why in that case would you try to cater more content to an audience that doesnt want it? Hardcore players engage with the game for longer and are often the ones who will pre-order the digital deluxe and fund your season pass. They are the people who keep player numbers up, who provide positive press and word of mouth advertising. Streamers and so on. It just makes sense to make content for those people to keep them engaged. Don't forget, all the content available to "hardcore" players is also available to casual players, maybe they take longer to get to it but its still there. Aside from maybe the raid and 980 NF, pretty much everything else is fair game for someone who i'd consider to be a casual. Its a balance, for sure, but I dont think hardcore and casual players are getting the short end of the stick here at all.
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i do get what you're saying but one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the armor is just a piece of the replayabilty and a small piece I'd argue, a much larger incentive to replay content is getting god rolls on weapons, and curated rolls on raid weapons. i feel it is much harder to get RNG on your side when it comes to god roll weapons as well, especially when that is much more subjective when it comes to weapon perk combinations and play style preferences.
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Very true, there are more reasons to play, however in this specific case of the raid, I actually dont think they are as... whats the word? Hard to get? The raid has 4 main things right? Guns, Mods, Armor and the Exotic. - Exotic, the Divinity, its just a quest, a perfectly fine quest in terms of length and (as long as you do it blind) very fun to do as well. No complaints here, many people didnt like random chance raid exotics, so here we are. But you have to concede, a one-time quest does limit replaybility compared to someone who has to do the raid 20 times for 1K-voices. - Weapons, if you didn't know (which im not expecting you to) Bungie actually limited the possible perk combinations on all the raid weapons which you can see on light.gg. Example -> raid hand cannon: [url]https://www.light.gg/db/items/48643186/ancient-gospel/[/url] only has 4 perks in the two main columns, a small ammount to choose from. Some may see this as a bad thing however they essentially trashed most of the bad perks leaving only a few possible rolls. As a result, its actually a lot easier to try and farm the god roll you want which to many is definitely a good thing, but alas.. again, limits replaybility because once you have those god rolls, the guns are no longer a goal. - Mods, a newly added thing for Destiny raids, never had these in d1 although they kind of replaced raid specific perks. These are a nice extra and definitely worth getting but Bungie are extremely generous with mod handouts, I already have them all, including most of the enhanced versions of the mods. Maybe other people had worse luck but with the limited data point being my raid team, we all found the mods to be common. Won't be long until everyone has them all. To reiterate - this again, is a nice thing, people did get frustrated with taken/fallen armaments being low drop rates however it DOES still limit replayability. - Armor, this is the only thing left. I dont have to explain why armor is good to farm but as you can see, its really the only other long-term chase left in the new raid. The only reason I play it, personally. I want god rolls on armor. Having them as ornaments would mean I no longer have a reason to play the raid. Now this is a very specific case, to raids but you can do a simillar sort of analysis for other game modes if you choose, and I think you'll find they share a simillar theme. -
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Edited by Vale: 10/16/2019 5:13:50 PMPersonally I would like to see a glamour system designed specifically with all this in mind, while tying it to triumphs. EX: For a raid set, acquiring all 5 pieces completes a triumph, resulting in Ornaments. That would make grinding out those pieces worthwhile for new and old players, especially considering loot lockouts (and RNG may not playing nice) Replayability incentive is half the reason triumphs (and achievements in any game for that matter) were created in the first place.
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Edited by Pure: 10/16/2019 7:24:30 PMI do get what you're saying, and in some instances, sure that would most definitely work. For example Escalation Protocol armor is so completely un-farmable and takes so long to get that no human would be able to realistically obtain a set with good rolls and element, so in that case, sure, ornament it up. Difference is you cannot apply this to all activities, or even most. Vanguard, crucible, planetary vendors, raids, vex offensive, iron banner and so on. None of these need this treatment because their armor can be farmed easilly. By giving them ornaments you completely rip out a replayable part of the system. Armor farming is an integral part to these activities. If you didn't already know, you can just spam the Leviathan vendor with tokens and get god-rolled high stat armor sets so easilly. Like I could literally have completely flawless sets for pve and pvp after I spend a fraction of my tokens lying around. So what is stopping me from just doing that, and then ornamenting those sets to whatever I feel like? What is the purpose of the new raid(s) then? I only need to do it a couple times on each class for the ornaments. The guns have very limited rolls (which is a good thing don't get me wrong, Bungie did this on purpose so that we could more easilly farm the rolls we want on guns) which also reduces replayability. I already have all the new raid mods, enhanced and all. So whats left? You tell me. I see no reason to go back to the raid for any reason. One potential way I could see this happening is by making ornaments require a resource to use. Somthing that can only be acquired from the hardest activities (like a raid) so that those activities would still actually have a reason to run them but I GURANTEE you everyone would straight up despise that idea because "omg ur limiting my creative freedom!!!".
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Edited by MykillSnipes: 10/16/2019 2:51:36 PMRespectfully disagree with just about every single point made here. This would in no way have any impact on the replayability. People will still engage with content to obtain stats/rolls that they want on the armor, then they can put whatever ornament they want on that armor which is the way it should be. This will not result in less variety. Quite the contrary. The more ornaments that people have available to customize their guardian, the better. And obviously, you’ll see an exponentially higher variety of different looking guardians which is also the way it should be. Not sure where less balance came from. Ornaments have no impact on the stats or viability of armor in any way whatsoever. As for the “fun” factor, not being able to customize my guardian the way I want is not how I’d define “fun”. I’ve spent the past couple of years earning this gear, so I should have free reign to change the appearance of an armor piece so long as I’ve unlocked it - whether it be from Eververse or playing the game.
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I've commented a very long winded post in reply to a simillar thing someone said and I don't really feel like repeating it all nor do I expect you to look through my message history but in short, everything I said is entirely true with documented evidence, examples and game design philosophy to back it up.
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And even then when people do get the rolls they want they'd still play the game because it's fun. It shouldn't be a checklist of things to acquire and then abandon, cause ya know, Destiny is a game
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Edited by Pure: 10/16/2019 7:07:42 PMUnfortunately, that is simply not true. You know that. I know that. Game designers know that. Every game has some sort of goal oriented gameplay. That goal can be as simple as improving, winning, even if there isnt really anything to gain like in Dota for example. Everyone needs a reason to play the game, and in a looter/mmo that is most certainly down to the gear most of the time. Sure, I DO find the raids fun, but I also dont want to do them when there is no reason to do it, as will be the response to the majority of people you ask the same question to.
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I cant tell if you’re being serious or not.
