[quote]----Let that sink in. Three years into Destiny 2 compared to around 3-4 months in Destiny 1. First of all Destiny 2 has been out for 2 years and 2 weeks, not 3 years.[/quote] Because the point was not the amount of the loot we get within certain time period. lets just say 2 years if you are going to feel happy. 2 years of D2 vs 6 months of D1? what does that change, it is still ridiculous. [quote]Here is why you wont get vendor resets. Think of all the tokens, materials and legendary shards current players already have. On day one of vendor resets you would be able to get all of the new weapons and armor, no need to grind. If you did have to grind for materials, I for sure would not want to play old content that I have been playing for upwards of 2 years. [/quote] So you are assuming that a player is keeping them or recently playing to hoard resources to use in Shadowkeep. So players who are not doing that wont get anything. It is of course playing smart, BUT you cannot call it a Bungie fix if it is not intended for all players. It is a workaround for a bad decision of Bungie. What you are saying is just to painting the issue to pink, and trying to look at the bright side. [quote]They are trying to fix those 2 problems. With new additions to the game, they want everyone to have a level playing field. That is why they add new materials for you to grind along with the new content. This is what most games do like this. Most players want something new, not having to grind older content.[/quote] They are not trying to fix that problem, they never have tried that. It is logically impossible to consider this as a fix. Armor 2.0 will be crucial how you play D2 in Y3, you WONT be using your old gear once you get decent Armor 2.0 and mods. While they are changing how armor and mods works, your old gear essentially turns into legacy gear to hold you up until you settle in Armor 2.0. Bungie has known to add extra materials for extending play time, all the known materials that gives an advantage for getting more loot or getting easier have been given and nerfed to the ground to uselessness not long after. I hope you are right about not being have to grind the old content, but I will see you in another glimmer extraction public event for the 1000000th time, see you guardian

[quote]Because the point was not the amount of the loot we get within certain time period. lets just say 2 years if you are going to feel happy. 2 years of D2 vs 6 months of D1? what does that change, it is still ridiculous.[/quote] I understood the point he was trying to make and he has a valid argument so there was no need to inflate his numbers. [quote]So you are assuming that a player is keeping them or recently playing to hoard resources to use in Shadowkeep. So players who are not doing that wont get anything. It is of course playing smart, BUT you cannot call it a Bungie fix if it is not intended for all players. It is a workaround for a bad decision of Bungie. What you are saying is just to painting the issue to pink, and trying to look at the bright side. [/quote] Bungie knows exactly how much each player has. This has been a problem in every game like this, that is why they create so many different resources. This is also why they put caps on certain resources you can earn because of in game inflation. I am okay with caps to make us spend once we reach a cap and earn more for each action to reach said cap. Crucible, Vanguard and Iron Banner token I believe should be removed from the game. You get the bounty and once it is completed it auto completes, no hoarding completed bounties. You also earn reputation for completing said activity. [quote]They are not trying to fix that problem, they never have tried that. It is logically impossible to consider this as a fix. Armor 2.0 will be crucial how you play D2 in Y3, you WONT be using your old gear once you get decent Armor 2.0 and mods. While they are changing how armor and mods works, your old gear essentially turns into legacy gear to hold you up until you settle in Armor 2.0. Bungie has known to add extra materials for extending play time, all the known materials that gives an advantage for getting more loot or getting easier have been given and nerfed to the ground to uselessness not long after. [/quote] They fix this problem every season. Each new content they added came with a new resource tied to it. There was nothing you could horde and bring into the content and gain a huge advantage. Black armory you need to complete a frame first, Reckoning you needed synths, Mangerie you needed Runes. In armor 2.0 in you example you need to earn the new resource to unlock energy 8, 9 and 10. Also the Aritfact requires all to earn new XP and you will need to do Erin bounties on the Moon to earn materials for the new Item in Shadowkeep (Chalice Mangerie like thing). They need to always create new things for you to grind to get you to play. If they used old resource you would not have much of a reason to grind as much. In armor 2.0, you can only have 1 reserve/scavenger perk. If you use combination armor 1.0 and armor 2.0 you can have 3 reserve/scavenger perks. That might be a huge advantage to PvP players. Using armor 1.0 and 2.0 you can have 2 super generating perks - one on helmet and 1 on class item. There are certain combination you can not get on armor 2.0. Depending on the 6 stats and how they increase things, then armor 1.0 might not matter. But theory-crafting is showing using both armor 1.0/2.0 creates some every interesting combinations.

[quote]Bungie knows exactly how much each player has. This has been a problem in every game like this, that is why they create so many different resources. This is also why they put caps on certain resources you can earn because of in game inflation. I am okay with caps to make us spend once we reach a cap and earn more for each action to reach said cap. Crucible, Vanguard and Iron Banner token I believe should be removed from the game. You get the bounty and once it is completed it auto completes, no hoarding completed bounties. You also earn reputation for completing said activity.[/quote] of course Bungie knows, them knowing is not an explanation of anything. I am ok with caps (needs to be raised though considering Bungie has increased the cost of doing anything). New added material only in theory works the way you say it does. In practice, a new material is just a part of the cost, there will be shards, glimmer, or more new materials which new players will not have anyways. So it is for the new players is not really a solid argument. furthermore, you cannot set up system that only caters the small percentage of your players base, then call it a fix. [quote]They fix this problem every season. Each new content they added came with a new resource tied to it. There was nothing you could horde and bring into the content and gain a huge advantage. Black armory you need to complete a frame first, Reckoning you needed synths, Mangerie you needed Runes. In armor 2.0 in you example you need to earn the new resource to unlock energy 8, 9 and 10. Also the Aritfact requires all to earn new XP and you will need to do Erin bounties on the Moon to earn materials for the new Item in Shadowkeep (Chalice Mangerie like thing). They need to always create new things for you to grind to get you to play. If they used old resource you would not have much of a reason to grind as much. [/quote] I guess we just differ here as I do not have fun playing if i have to grind for materials that much. I want to grind for a gun, perfect roll, perfect armor set ups for different game modes. The last thing I wanna do spend 2-3 hours grinding materials like I used to in D1. That is why Bungie is all about 1 step forward and 2 steps back. [quote] In armor 2.0, you can only have 1 reserve/scavenger perk. If you use combination armor 1.0 and armor 2.0 you can have 3 reserve/scavenger perks. That might be a huge advantage to PvP players. Using armor 1.0 and 2.0 you can have 2 super generating perks - one on helmet and 1 on class item. There are certain combination you can not get on armor 2.0. Depending on the 6 stats and how they increase things, then armor 1.0 might not matter. But theory-crafting is showing using both armor 1.0/2.0 creates some every interesting combinations.[/quote] I think you are assuming a tad bit too much here with thinking Bungie will let those perks stack up after they said that Armor 2.0 wont stack. My prediction, if you cannot stack them in Armor 2.0 it also wont work with mixing Armor 2.0 and 1.0. That's kind of a wishful thinking.

[quote] of course Bungie knows, them knowing is not an explanation of anything. I am ok with caps (needs to be raised though considering Bungie has increased the cost of doing anything). New added material only in theory works the way you say it does. In practice, a new material is just a part of the cost, there will be shards, glimmer, or more new materials which new players will not have anyways. So it is for the new players is not really a solid argument. furthermore, you cannot set up system that only caters the small percentage of your players base, then call it a fix.[quote] Of course they add to the cost so old players can not max everything else on day one. How do you not understand that is the point of theses new resources. How is it a small number of players. Every game like this has this problem. If you play enough of these type of game they all say players horde materials and its a problem. This has been the solution in a lot of these games to add a new material to grind Yes it affects new players more as they need all resources and if game developers are smart they increase the speed you earn older resources for the new players. I have over 6k gunsmith material., ff they added anything new to that vendor I would have all day one. [/quote]I guess we just differ here as I do not have fun playing if i have to grind for materials that much. I want to grind for a gun, perfect roll, perfect armor set ups for different game modes. The last thing I wanna do spend 2-3 hours grinding materials like I used to in D1. That is why Bungie is all about 1 step forward and 2 steps back. [quote] I never said I liked it. But I understand why they do it. I do not play Black Armory because the grind. I just started playing Reckoning again because they fixed the grind for weapons. I think Bungie is learning how to manage the grind. Look at the Managerie, you just play the game and earn the runes. No stupid weapon frame I have to grind, no bounty to earn for synths. The Chalice I feel worked really well. I hope the new item with Erin is like that. [/quote]I think you are assuming a tad bit too much here with thinking Bungie will let those perks stack up after they said that Armor 2.0 wont stack. My prediction, if you cannot stack them in Armor 2.0 it also wont work with mixing Armor 2.0 and 1.0. That's kind of a wishful thinking.[/quote] Sounds like you assuming also. But I will wait and see. My prediction is you will be able to stack the armor 1.0 perks with armor 2.0 with no restrictions. To program and test things not stacking would be a nightmare between the 2 systems. They said Armor 1.0 will work with the Armor 2.0 and have never mentioned any restrictions. Just the restriction on 1.0. Again I will wait and see how it all works. It is still fun to think about the possibilities.

My assumption based on Bungie's track record. How many times we learnt that certain thing wont stack by experiment or how 2 heavy ammo mods would cancel each other out instead of stacking. On top of everything, how would it make sense to restrict armor 2.0 stacking but allow armor 1 and 2. I watched a video recently which explained armor 1 gives shorter ability charges than Armor 2.0 and mixing them would just screw the whole system.

What you are describing with the heavy ammo sounds like a bug, not a feature or design decision. This post goes over what has been shown so far using a hybrid armor build. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/cquqdx/potential_power_of_armor_1020_hybrid_builds/ I believe it will be to much trouble for them to limit combining certain perks between armor 1.0 and 2.0. They would have to do checks and create UI for the player when you try and slot certain armor 1.0 pieces/place a mod in armor 2.0 with perks they do not want you to stack together. Like 2 extra scavenger perks you can get from armor 1.0 on top of Armor 2.0 only having 1 on the legs. It would be a lot of work, so I will be surprised if they do it. We will know in a couple of weeks.

[quote]----Let that sink in. Three years into Destiny 2 compared to around 3-4 months in Destiny 1. First of all Destiny 2 has been out for 2 years and 2 weeks, not 3 years. Here is why you wont get vendor resets. Think of all the tokens, materials and legendary shards current players already have. On day one of vendor resets you would be able to get all of the new weapons and armor, no need to grind. If you did have to grind for materials, I for sure would not want to play old content that I have been playing for upwards of 2 years. They are trying to fix those 2 problems. With new additions to the game, they want everyone to have a level playing field. That is why they add new materials for you to grind along with the new content. This is what most games do like this. Most players want something new, not having to grind older content.[/quote] First of all we ARE going in y3. Not 2. Forsaken was 2. The tokens you have now should be be tradeable for abnew currency that let's you buy weapons from the vendors. That way you dont have a lot. Problem solved. The way you get these new tokens is by doing the weekly challenges for that mode. I've seen no evidence of them trying to fox this. You say most players want something new and dont want to grind old content, yet strikes and crucible are still a thing and people complain if there are no new additions as seen in the annual pass

---First of all we ARE going in y3. Not 2. Forsaken was 2.--- Yes. we are going into year 3. I would edit you original post - because we are not 3 years into Destiny 2 as you stated, we are 2 years and 14 days into Destiny 2. 3 years IN implies since 2016. ---The tokens you have now should be be tradeable for abnew currency that let's you buy weapons from the vendors. That way you dont have a lot. Problem solved. The way you get these new tokens is by doing the weekly challenges for that mode.--- Are you saying older vendors should get a new tokens/materials you need to earn to get the older vendor new reset weapons and armor? So each season there will be a new material/token for each old vendor? Can I still earn the older material to upgrade my armor 1.0. Now I have 2 materials for each vendor I must keep? I must now also grind older content to get a new weapon or armor I want?

So here is what I'm saying. This would apply for Crucible and Vanguard only: Shaxx gets a total refresh. There are 12 weapons in his inventory. These weapons can only be bought with a Crucible weapon token. You like the roll on the bow for example. How are these tokens earned? The token itself can be earned 2 ways. Trade Shaxx some of your normal tokens in exchange for one. I don't know what the exact numbers would be. Maybe 50 normals for 1 weapon token. This further gives players a reason to pick up Crucible bounties because they reward tokens. Tokens right now are useless, hence picking up bounties are too. The second way you earn a weapon token is by completing the complete 5 crucible matches challenge. Normal tokens would still serve a purpose though. You could trade those in normally and get a random piece of armor, a previous season's weapon, or a slight chance of one of the current stock weapons that is randomly rolled. These tokens would be the new currency for each season going forward. No new material every season. This would basically work the same way with Zavalla. Trade some normal tokens to get a weapon token. Complete 3 strikes matching the same element as your fireteam and get another weapon token. Hand in normal tokens for random armor or a previous seasons weapon. Etc. Only would work for these two vendors because they are the only vendors that have random rolled weapons minus the Drifter.