I just want to point out that being able to damage the boss with 1 tank 1 phase on the 1st encounter scourge boss isn't net limiting..... that's a speedrunning strat that has nothing to do with 3rd party applications....... All you do is have someone hop in and out while shooting in between then right before the tank blows, a second teammate jumps in and shoots. This causes the game to believe the first teammate shot all the shots at the same time as the second which increases damage..... the mechanic behind doing damage for that phase, not net limiting.

TBH this would not be as big of a problem if they stopped using peer to peer and making a specific player the Host and instead used that extra money they have made from eververse and used that on getting dedicated servers. I mean just saying, bungie admitted themselves that the 2 whisper of the worm ornaments sales alone were enough to create the entire zero hour mission. Makes me truly wonder what they can do with all sales from the eververse items that they sell 24/7 each season. I think dedicated servers especially considering now they are on steam and no longer battle.net and can easily get dedicated servers from steam or valve. Indi devs do it all the time.

I am a gamer and a programmer and NL has been there since the old days. Nothing new. Destiny is easy to exploit due to p2p and that is a limitation. PC is easier to hack and some hacks can be done on OS or hardware level (keyboard macros for example). It will be impossible to predict and fix all these issues and based on current state of this game (lower player base vs d1) Bungie has a lot on its plate. Logical fix will be to go sever based gaming or use cloud gaming (Stadia) to fix these loopholes. The bigger problem aa you have highlighted is the game is for 'git gud' by grind players. Seriously, if I have to learn a game via YouTube video or a streamer then I'm done. I would rather watch Netflix instead of YouTube tutorials. This is what bungie needs to fix rather than create an environment where people are try hard or resort to cheating. I once made a post for leviathan back in d2y1 that I want to do legit and learn with new players. I got f all response. That was the turning point of this game for me and most of community.

Im not too surprised. I still remember ethernet yanks on Crota. Cheesing within the game boundries is one thing. Riven cheese, for example, but going so far as external manipulation is just cheap and weak.

[quote]Earlier last week, I was on the Destiny 2 PC LFG discord server looking for a Scourge of The Past. I put in my post "lf2m fresh, no net limiters." The reason I requested this is because I actually like to do the mechanics and not cheat my way through the raid. Requesting this is totally within the bounds of the discord server - the channels are for LFGing, not for arguing about requirements. It's not like I'm requiring darci, recluse, mountaintop. Anyway, someone, sarcastically or not, hard to tell because of text, said, "There's no other way to do the raid." I've been on PC only about 5 weeks now since my PC was built and given to me, and I personally have seen Net Limiting being used in 3 raids. What is Net Limiting? Well, I don't know the specifics, but from dialogue I've heard, I understand it to be a 3rd party program that is run to intentionally lag your internet in ways that benefit you. On the opening part of the raid, you pick up the ball that is the non-5 ball, you go to the correct spot, have your buddies kill the servitors, you turn on your NL, and you dunk it 4 times, ending the encounter instantly. It also seems to have a positive effect on tank DPS when done correctly - to the point where the structure in the center goes down in seconds with just 1 or 2 tanks up, missile coordination not required. And, guess what? You can NL again on the boss to duplicate the first ball 4 times again to spawn the tanks! All your teammates need to do is shoot the shields off the boss - not a hard job for 4 people. I told my friend about NL and he asked me hypothetically if I thought people would be able to use it in the new Shadowkeep raid to benefit them. Therefore I pose this question to Bungie. Where do we draw the line when it comes to glitching (and blatant cheating) in PvE? In meaningful endgame content such as the raid? Sincerely, a double master rank raider who tries not to be an asshole to everyone he raids with.[/quote] You know Net limiter is a genuine bit of software right? It's a bandwith shaper for clients systems. You also dont need it to screw with your connection. What most people do is wait till there in game them load up things like Netflix, spotify and that crap so it chews their bandwidth causing lag. One last thing network connections are not measure by speed. Its capacity. Bandwidth = capacity. Speed won't vary. Unless you've found a way to make electrons or photons travel faster.

Using an in game glitch is usually not considered cheating, using any 3rd party software to interfere with the game is. So, people who do that are risking their entire account for a PvE activity? They could just [REDACTED] (I'm not telling people how to cheat. Play the game legit people 🙄), with only suspensions as a punishment. So no, it's not unreasonable to ask for a legit Raid group. Fun fact, I stopped playing D1 for 2.5 years because every single Raid group I found wanted to cheese Crota or the lamps section)

It's PvE, not like they're hurting anybody. Do what suits you if you're not harming others.

PC really is a busted mess. It was a bad idea to waste all that development time on a PC port that only a tiny faction of the player base plays on

...imagine cheating in any raid....none of them are hard. But to say its an actual culture is bullshit. Id expect nothing less than an assumptious newcomer who cant even put his own PC together even when its easier to do so now vs 10-20 years ago.

I've been on PC since Curse of Osiris and have yet to see this even once. Pretty sad that people would do this, but it doesn't seem to happen often.

Once.. doing all mechanics is fine. All runs after it becomes a drag, especially when it wasn't fun the first time. Maybe design a raid that's fun and exciting? That would probably help.

A persistent problem with loot games. Some people are so motivated by the loot....and the rush that they get from acquiring it....that they can't be bothered to actually play the game.

Lol the ball cheese has been around since the raid dropped. Die right as you put the ball in get revived do it again

Bumgies networking setup is just bad and easily lends itself to cheating .