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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 8/15/2019 5:31:14 PM
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Dispelling the myth that Well needs nerfed

A LOT of people don't understand how math works. 1. A well adds 35% damage per player and it does not stack. If a fireteam of 6 people deal a total of 1000 damage, the well increases that to 1350 damage. If each guardian is doing 1000 damage, each guardian does 1350 damage x 6 = 8100 damage, 35% higher than the 6000 they would've done without a well. You're not doing 210% more damage and percentages don't "add up" like that you uneducated morons. 2. "It makes the game worse because all you do is sit in a well and fire" Inaccurate. Bungie keeps creating encounters where the most logical thing to do is sit in a well and spam fire. Nerfing it doesn't make encounters anymore difficult, simply longer because guardians are dealing less damage. In fact, with a worse well, you're just spamming the fire button for a longer period of time, making the encounter more tedious. In D1, raid bosses and mechanics forced movement frequently. Well doesn't work in King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine because you have to run around and do shit basically the whole time. It works in EOW because the boss' crit spot faces one direction, it doesn't move, and neither do you for the whole damage phase. *Edit* In the instances where well would've worked in D1, people DID use Titan bubbles which were functionally identical. It buffed weapons making for quicker encounters and made you invulnerable to damage. The only difference was the 19 pixel strafe to get into and out of the Bubble. Nobody called for nerfs to the Bubble because "every raid encounter needs a bubble!". Stop bringing it up, you will lose that comparison. 3. "It's broken or whatever the non warlock mains keep saying " There's a video of a hunter one shot meleeing a raid boss to death. There are videos of 6 hunters killing Calus and finishing EOW in under 15 seconds with celestial nighthawk and golden gun spam. Some dumb ass streamer wants to talk about a well of radiance that helps guardians finish an event approximately 35% faster and THAT'S the broken thing Bungie fixes? Sorry, but no. Hunters have been leaning on Celestial Nighthawk since D1 and do things with it that warlocks can only dream about. You can break various aspects of this game with all characters. 4. "it's still broken cuz you can one phase bosses" We were one phasing every raid encounter back in Y1 with regular rifts before well ever existed and nobody complained then. You can one phase any strike boss with a well coordinated fireteam without a warlock present at all. Blinding Wells aren't any harder without them and, frankly, the only reason they're useful in Leviathan is because of the reload mechanic with Lunas while shooting skulls during the Calus encounter. 5. "Something something warlocks are OP" You can still beat a prestige EOW final encounter in under 20 seconds with 6 hunters. Can't do that with 6 warlocks. Careful where you toss your OP badge, idiots. Celestial Nighthawk + one guy to tether with Orpheus Rig was the original one phase cheese and you can still mostly do it. 6. "Phoenix Protocol means infinite rifts!" No, you (the warlock) have to kill/assist mobs to generate the new super energy. If there are none (or very few), you get no super energy and it's a useless exotic. Never mind that most self respecting warlocks wear Lunafaction boots to raids and have since year 1, before well ever existed. The infinite well trick only works in the blind well and that's assuming you put it in the right place and get bullets in most of the bad guys that appear. The exotic doesn't just give you free super energy for existing. It's not Bernie Sanders armor. 7. "You're functionally invincible in a well" In PvE, maybe. It's a super after all. They're not called "mediocres". However, in PvP, you absolutely are not invincible. It being mostly useless in pvp because of the fast TTK is why lost of us use nova bombs or the other solar super. 7. "Datto is popular and everything he says is right." Datto gets paid money to play a game you all paid for and play without monetary gain. He is not you, he does not represent you, and his views only serve himself and his popularity. They should NEVER be a guide Bungie uses to dictate mechanics to the rest of the player base, none of whom play the game as often or [i][u]for the same reasons[/u][/i] as a damn streamer. This is his job. It is our hobby. He does not and will never want the same things we do. 8. "Nerf Lunafaction boots" If you nerf Lunas, then OEM, Celestial Nighthawk, and basically every other good exotic better -blam!-ing well be on that list too. Either you burn everybody or leave well enough alone. The effects people whine about are all a combination of an exotic piece of gear and a SUPER. the well isn't infinite without exotic armor and it doesn't reload your weapons without exotic boots. Take into consideration that most players don't get paid money to play the game like Datto or play the game for 4000 hours like many of you. A lot of people don't have those exotics and are staring down the barrel of a super being made pointless for a reason they never got to experience. 9. "Well Datto has a point" Nobody gave a shit about Lunas, wells, or rifts before Datto posted his bullshit rage bait nonsense video about it. Nobody cared if a warlock had a well and Lunas. These were not issues that needed to be fixed. It's just a bored streamer in mid August playing a game nobody is gonna care about for another 2 months with no content to make so he invented a problem and complained about it. Content creators in YouTube do that literally all the time. It's not a real problem, he just needs a paycheck and chose Wells to complain about this time. Nothing he said made any actual sense to a warlock main who actually plays this game. 10. "Well something something pinnacle events well of radiance" You're just salty that nobody cares about your rally barracades anymore. Keep in mind that this is a SUPER with an EXOTIC paired together and Titan and Hunter mains have no problems coming into this community to defend their crutches (One Eyed Mask, for instance). 11. "Bungie is gonna do it anyway" Yeah, screw that miserable company. Why would anybody buy Shadowkeep if they're gonna grind and grind for good stuff just to have it nerfed every time some whiny brat streamer makes a cry video about it. Whatever. -blam!- you, Bungie. 12. "It makes the game boring" No, the game is already boring. Well just made it faster and easier, which is what a Super is supposed to -blam!-ing do. Sure the argument is made that it forces players to play somewhat differently, the fact remains that exotic + super combinations are used as crutches by all subclasses in all aspects of the game. It's disingenuous to single out solar-locks with Lunas when Titans and Hunters also have broken ass mechanics with exotics and supers. Why not change how they play too? Or has this dwindling community somehow, some way not gotten tired of Jotunn noobs or sliding-shotgun titans with OEMs? *edit* Adding one more 13. "It adds variety to the game" This one is difficult to argue in a vacuum because a lot of us do use Well in the same circumstances (mostly raid encounters). However, there are many items, supers, and mechanics that dictate how people play. OEM + Dusk Rock Blues Titans are still an overwhelming favorite for PvP players. Machine Guns and 1k Voices are immensely popular by invaders in Gambit. Hell, guardians cheese Flashpoint by intentionally not doing the public event (and not letting anyone do it) so they can fast travel back and redo the event a second time. People will skip to the end of Last Wish to farm 1k voices and not even do the rest of the raid. And the complaint is that Well reduces the number of ways people play? Thus, the idea of Nerfing well for the sake of "variety" while ignoring all of the other game breaks, cheeses, and gear/supers that dictate how people play is basically just an absurd witch hunt dreamt up by a guy who just needed something to talk about in August when there's nothing to talk about in this game. "I like fixes as long as long as it doesn't change how I play" is a bad reason to change how thousands of people play a video game and "because a streamer said so" is not respecting the people who paid $100+ for this game and all its DLC. Streamers aren't representatives. We did not vote for them.
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  • To preface this, I'm a Warlock main, so class bias doesn't blind me here. A vast majority of your argument is basically "if this part of Well should be nerfed, then this other thing that isn't even relevant to the conversation should be nerfed too". Just because other things are overpowered doesn't mean Well of Radiance shouldn't be nerfed. That doesn't make any sense. Does the way Bungie design encounters make Well of Radiance stronger? Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it still makes the player functionally invincible inside of PvE. The argument that "it's a super" isn't worth anything. Even Ward of Dawn can be destroyed.

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  • Nerfs are awful. Nova Warp, Spectral Blades, Arc Staff, Blade Barrage, Bubble and Fist of Havoc are a shell of their former selves. Protect Well, which is already the most useless super in PvP and desperately needs a buff there. It [i]really[/i] doesn’t need a nerf.

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  • I was interested in reading this until you started bashing Hunters out of nowhere. I dont understand why People are complaining that pve content needs adjusting. So what if a class is good? Play with them. Become friends. PvP needs the class changes. Warlocks could use a few buffs. Titans could use a lot of nerfs. Like, OEM is still a big problem, and Hunters have a few supers that could use a tune up. I.e. Blade Barrage and Spectral Blades. They are annoying to fight against and shouldnt have been added.

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  • I don't think it needs to be nerfed because using it is a choice. That's what people are ignoring. It's not op nor game breaking. You do not need to use well to do activities in the game, it just makes doing activities easier, so people choose to use it. That's how it's always been in Destiny. All nerfing it will do is cause the community to find the next thing that makes doing activities easier. What happens then: people ask for that to be nerfed? Which starts the cycle over again, until we get to the point that well is back to being that thing used, and/or everything in the game behaves the same. Either way, the game becomes worst and less fun to play.

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    • I honestly stopped reading at the Bernie Sanders comment. I’m not a fan, I’m aiming for Biden, but the comment was so left field (get it?) that it completely pulled me from your argument.

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    • Hunters, no, not 100% legit but there is nothing near in comparison for a warlock that I know of

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    • This is coming from someone who’s mained warlock since D1. So let’s compare well bubble. Bubble: you had to step into the bubble to get the buff, either weapons or blessings, since bubble can’t run both, you couldn’t shoot out of a bubble, and you couldn’t shoot infinity either. Well: you get a damage buff as well as overhealing and that’s just from 1 super, to get even close to that in D1 you needed 2 supers and even then blessings was just a shield not perpetual healing. On top of that, you get an exotic that allows you to shoot as much as you want for 30 seconds while giving you a continuous damage buff as healing, and given how most of the encounters are designed in this game well fundamentally breaks them, no if ands or buts. And just because you brought it up, let’s talk about well and D1 encounters. Vault of glass: let’s assume your team is doing Templar challenge, you pop a well on each teleport point, guess what, that’s essentially 2 bubbles for the price of 1 and that’s it, encounters done, unload your gallys. Atheon, you literally stand on a platform with a shield blocking damage and outputting a ton, hmm I wonder what that sounds like? Crotas end, holding the plate at the end of the abyss, well+phoenix nuff said. Deathsinger, just sit in the well and ignore shriekers. Crota, I dunno if you’ve done menagerie but well makes the riposte a joke. Kings fall, the only encounter where well wouldn’t be broken is the ship jumping and even then we have divine protection to float for quite a bit. Wrath, vosik phase one, well on each charging station and orb spam/sleeper to victory, phase 2 see phase 1, siege engine, why would you ever use bubble outside of the starting segment. Aksis phase 1, well wouldn’t be useful, but phase 2 if you do the encounter the challenge way you’d have a well every time. So please enlighten me how the D1 raid bosses were better than the d2 ones when they all essentially stood still. Now let’s talk about your whole PvP argument. Was nova warp broken in pve? Were spectral blades broken in pve? Absolutely not, yet they got nerfed, so to use the argument “it isn’t broken in PvP so it shouldn’t get nerfed” is a ridiculous one. Lunafaction boots, black hammer and pre nerf whisper both of those allowed for theoretically infinite damage as long as you landed the crit, lunafaction boots provides that possibility without the ability to land crits, a 3 year old can point in the general direction of an enemy drop a well and fire and guess what? That enemy is gonna die because they can shoot till they run out of ammo without wasting time to reload and let’s not forget the damage buff of well. Anyone who claims that well isn’t a game breaking end game super is delusional, the ability to fire for 30 seconds without having to worry about reloading, getting a 35% damage boost for 30 seconds, healing faster than damage can be done to you in 90% of activities, being able to shoot out of it, and it essentially does what you needed 2 titans for in D1 but better. Well needs a nerf, it’s needed a nerf since it came out, and I can’t believe it took this long for people to realize that.

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      • Good write up. On your section about Warlocks feeling like Well is their only option: Top tree Stromcaller. For the 2 Man Shattered Throne, my friend ran tether and I ran top tree Stromcaller for the final encounter. Melted the 3 knights in record time. Just one example, but I feel like alot of people really sleep on Stormcaller. There's plenty of encounters where you don't NEED a Well. It's just helpful. I'd still like to see a Chaos Reach damage increase.

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      • This is very well written with plenty of legitimate facts and comparisons to support your argument. Bravo. These are the types of posts I can get behind. Sadly, I fear these posts often do not get through to those who matter most. (Developers and other employees)

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        • [quote]The exotic doesn't just give you free super energy for existing. [b]It's not Bernie Sanders armor.[/b][/quote] OK... this has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read on this forum.

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        • Edited by Jim the wise: 8/15/2019 11:21:59 PM
          As a warlock main, I still think well should be nerfed. Not because I think it’s completely broken and will slowly ruin the game if not nerfed, oh wait that’s definitely what I think... But the main reason is so that I can finally use one of my other supers, which are much more fun, without either being kicked or yelled at by whatever team I’m playing with.

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          • if the next raid boss shoots AoE bombs that keep you moving from cover to cover and shooting at a small target to do damage to it--so you need a sniper to do it, then all warlock supers are useless against that. It's mostly about the build of the raid boss.

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            • The amount of fallacies in this post. My god its astounding. Primarily false equivalencies. Talking about nerfing PvE exotics then equivocating it to PvP. The very definition of a false equivalency. Or talking about d1 encounters saying well wouldn't be dominant and then instantly saying, but bubble was and they are the same thing. Pathetic. Like this post.

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            • If you don't want the top 1% dictating how the game is made, I don't want the bottom 1% dictating it :^)

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            • [quote] 2. "It makes the game worse because all you do is sit in a well and fire In D1, raid bosses and mechanics forced movement frequently. Well doesn't work in King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine because you have to run around and do shit basically the whole time. It works in EOW because the boss' crit spot faces one direction, it doesn't move, and neither do you for the whole damage phase. [/Quote] No they didn't. VoG Templar - sit in one spot and dump heavy. Relic holder did his thing. atheon - sit in one spot and dump heavy Crotas end Death singer - gather around and sit under her with shotguns Crota - sit in one spot, take down shield, sword bearer deals damage Kings fall Warpriest - sit in one spot, shoot boss Golgoroth - sit in one spot agreed upon by the team and shoot the boss, on hard mode one guy had to run away for a second. Daughters - sit in one of two spots, shoot boss Oryx - detonate bombs, come back and shoot the boss. WoTM Vosik - one spot, shoot boss Askis - move to boss locations and shoot boss Very few encounters made you move around a ton during damage phase [Quote]In the instances where well would've worked in D1, people DID use Titan bubbles which were functionally identical. It buffed weapons making for quicker encounters and made you invulnerable to damage. The only difference was the 19 pixel strafe to get into and out of the Bubble. Nobody called for nerfs to the Bubble because "every raid encounter needs a bubble!". Stop bringing it up, you will lose that comparison.[/quote] Except bubble didn't offer protection and damage, it was one or the other. You had no protection if you wanted damage and you had no damage if you wanted protection, well gives both. [Quote]3. "It's broken or whatever the non warlock mains keep saying "[/quote] Not broken broken, but it's powerful enough to shape content to fit it. [Quote]There's a video of a hunter one shot meleeing a raid boss to death. There are videos of 6 hunters killing Calus and finishing EOW in under 15 seconds with celestial nighthawk and golden gun spam. Some dumb ass streamer wants to talk about a well of radiance that helps guardians finish an event approximately 35% faster and THAT'S the broken thing Bungie fixes? Sorry, but no. Hunters have been leaning on Celestial Nighthawk since D1 and do things with it that warlocks can only dream about. You can break various aspects of this game with all characters.[/quote] Combo blow, 1,2p, liars handshake hunter build needs to die too. Celestial night hawk deals a lot of damage but boss health pools have gotten larger making it less useful [Quote]4. "it's still broken cuz you can one phase bosses" We were one phasing every raid encounter back in Y1 with regular rifts before well ever existed and nobody complained then.[/quote] With a high amount of coordination and other ridiculous guns like whisper, yes. [Quote] You can one phase any strike boss with a well coordinated fireteam without a warlock present at all.[/quote] Strike bosses being used as an argument against something won't go far given strike boss health [Quote]Blinding Wells aren't any harder without them and, frankly, the only reason they're useful in Leviathan is because of the reload mechanic with Lunas while shooting skulls during the Calus encounter.[/quote] Blind well is literally a mass of red bar enemies and mini bosses, of course well isn't needed, there's nothing that's threat. Also, well is still useful in Leviathan for the same reason it's useful everywhere, near invincibility, damage buff that stacks with everything. [Quote]5. "Something something warlocks are OP"[/quote] Never heard that one [Quote]6. "Phoenix Protocol means infinite rifts!" No, you (the warlock) have to kill/assist mobs to generate the new super energy. If there are none (or very few), you get no super energy and it's a useless exotic.[/quote] You can still get infinite rifts and it's especially apparent in activities like heroic menagerie and reckoning how powerful it is [Quote] Never mind that most self respecting warlocks wear Lunafaction boots to raids and have since year 1, before well ever existed.[/quote] Also a broken ability, auto reloading needs to be axed. [Quote]7. "You're functionally invincible in a well" In PvE, maybe. It's a super after all. They're not called "mediocres". However, in PvP, you absolutely are not invincible. It being mostly useless in pvp because of the fast TTK is why lost of us use nova bombs or the other solar super.[/quote] Given that everyone is talking about it's power in PVE, bringing up PVP power is just grasping at straws. [Quote]7. "Datto is popular and everything he says is right."[/quote] Nobody said that, you're just babyraging [Quote]8. "Nerf Lunafaction boots" If you nerf Lunas, then OEM, Celestial Nighthawk, and basically every other good exotic better -blam!-ing well be on that list too. Either you burn everybody or leave well enough alone. The effects people whine about are all a combination of an exotic piece of gear and a SUPER.[/quote] Doesn't matter, auto reloading is broken. Repurpose Luna and rally barricade to do something else. [Quote] the well isn't infinite without exotic armor and it doesn't reload your weapons without exotic boots.[/quote] Still doesn't matter, the exotic gives it the ability to do it so it can and should be nerfed [Quote]9. "Well Datto has a point" Nobody gave a shit about Lunas, wells, or rifts before Datto posted his bullshit rage bait nonsense video about it. Nobody cared if a warlock had a well and Lunas. These were not issues that needed to be fixed. It's just a bored streamer in mid August playing a game nobody is gonna care about for another 2 months with no content to make so he invented a problem and complained about it.[/quote] Myself with a few other people wanted it nerfed since black armory. [Quote]10. "Well something something pinnacle events well of radiance" You're just salty that nobody cares about your rally barracades anymore. Keep in mind that this is a SUPER with an EXOTIC paired together and Titan and Hunter mains have no problems coming into this community to defend their crutches (One Eyed Mask, for instance).[/quote] This point really derailed. Pinnacle events should be hard, well bypasses all difficulty. [Quote]11. "Bungie is gonna do it anyway" Yeah, screw that miserable company. Why would anybody buy Shadowkeep if they're gonna grind and grind for good stuff just to have it nerfed every time some whiny brat streamer makes a cry video about it. Whatever. -blam!- you, Bungie.[/quote] Prime example of someone becoming too attached to a video game. [Quote]12. "It makes the game boring" No, the game is already boring. Well just made it faster and easier, which is what a Super is supposed to -blam!-ing do. Sure the argument is made that it forces players to play somewhat differently, the fact remains that exotic + super combinations are used as crutches by all subclasses in all aspects of the game. It's disingenuous to single out solar-locks with Lunas when Titans and Hunters also have broken ass mechanics with exotics and supers. Why not change how they play too? Or has this dwindling community somehow, some way not gotten tired of Jotunn noobs or sliding-shotgun titans with OEMs?[/quote] OEM is pointless in PvE as is slide shotgunning. That's not even relevant to the discussion around well, but it's apparent that you don't know why people want it nerfed, rather, you saw "nerf" and "well" in the same post and started crying. [Quote]13. "It adds variety to the game" This one is difficult to argue in a vacuum because a lot of us do use Well in the same circumstances (mostly raid encounters). However, there are many items, supers, and mechanics that dictate how people play. OEM + Dusk Rock Blues Titans are still an overwhelming favorite for PvP players. Machine Guns and 1k Voices are immensely popular by invaders in Gambit. Hell, guardians cheese Flashpoint by intentionally not doing the public event (and not letting anyone do it) so they can fast travel back and redo the event a second time. People will skip to the end of Last Wish to farm 1k voices and not even do the rest of the raid. And the complaint is that Well reduces the number of ways people play? Thus, the idea of Nerfing well for the sake of "variety" while ignoring all of the other game breaks, cheeses, and gear/supers that dictate how people play is basically just an absurd witch hunt dreamt up by a guy who just needed something to talk about in August when there's nothing to talk about in this game.[/quote] Implying that people don't want other fixes made to the game simply because well is the biggest problem for PvE right now shows how poorly constructed your entire post is.

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              • maaad

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              • [quote] 5. "Something something warlocks are OP" You can still beat a prestige EOW final encounter in under 20 seconds with 6 hunters. Can't do that with 6 warlocks. Careful where you toss your OP badge, idiots. Celestial Nighthawk + one guy to tether with Orpheus Rig was the original one phase cheese and you can still mostly do it. [/quote] You can do it a lot faster than 20 seconds with a warlock. It’s called well and grenade launchers or you could use chaos reach with geomag.

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              • Edited by Pocket: 8/16/2019 5:23:17 AM
                WE GET IT, you don't want your OP Warlock nerfed. Yikes, the defensiveness around here is reaching a panicked state. Being spoiled for so long tends to have that effect.

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                • Edited by Orca: 8/16/2019 1:34:18 PM
                  I remember the times when titans were forced to play meltingpoint hunters were forced to play tether+orpheus rigg or golden gun+Celestial so there will always be a meta in raids/strikes. The only reason Well is the must have is that most encounters dmgphase are lacking in the movement/variety department its just fight mobs execute mechanics go to spot stand there and shoot powerammo then everyone switch to outbreak perfected and shoot with this. I mean every boss fight is the same only thing that is different is the mechanics department. Shit when i´am raiding with titan i don´t even use super to dmg the boss i just shoot with heavy and outbreak ( outbreak 6times stacked) once heavy is empty. It´s not the fault of Lunars+Well it´s the fault of bungie having crappy designed encounter dmg-phases. Of course every group wants well of radiance. The only reason is it makes the boring dmgphase go over faster nothing else. Tell me how in the world Gahlran will be harder to beat without well? It won´t be harder it will be more annoying and time consuming that´s all. What will happen when not playing with WoR? Show me at least one boss which will be harder to beat without WoR but i mean truly harder and not only slower or instead of 1 phasing the encounter but maybe having to go over 2 phases? Don´t tell me "yeah but when 2 phasing a boss you´ll have more challange in executing the mechanics perfectly twice so that´s the hard part of it!" Because them mechanics aren´t hard at all, once you´ve the clue how to do it it´s literally a cakewalk too... WoR isn´t overpowerd it does what it does, the encounters are just mediocre designed WoR just makes melting a boss faster not easier...

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                • First I all I agree that well shouldn’t be nerfed, however Bungie is not a miserable company, which shouldn’t be as unpopular an opinion as it is. They care about the workers, people, and the playerbase and try their level best. If anything, OEM needs a nerf big time.

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                • lol your post sounded childish and vindictive. So slow me to retort.... You’re just upset that your halfass SunSinger is getting the Axe again while secretly, deep down you can’t wait to park your newly neutered a$$ in my Purple Dome yet again. If I even allow your worthless mug in my FT... Sound familiar? Stay Triggered Sun Floofer! There are dark days ahead!😈

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                  • This post is one big and frankly annoying strawman/ad hominem with a lot of salt and little substance. It’s like if you ate a 4 oz filet with 6 oz of salt and seasoning

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                    • I stopped reading after the 5th idiot insult. Throwing out insults doesn't really help your argument, or make you seem intelligent .

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                    • That is an incredible wall of text.

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                    • Lets be real here as someone who almost exclusively played warlock since destiny launched. Well was a must have in each fireteam shit even in strikes and meneg id have people telling me to go well. That shit needs to change. When nova bomb and skull was the meta i said the same thing. Also that damage point isnt being realistic for how well was breaking encounters. 35% damage to 1000 damage seems small but what activity do we do that much damage? Scourge of the past being the best example a darci user could do 2m damage thats 700k damage just for standing in a circle that makes you invincible and reloads your weapons for you doesnt make sense

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                    • [quote]A LOT of people don't understand how math works. 1. A well adds 35% damage per player and it does not stack. If a fireteam of 6 people deal a total of 1000 damage, the well increases that to 1350 damage. If each guardian is doing 1000 damage, each guardian does 1350 damage x 6 = 8100 damage, 35% higher than the 6000 they would've done without a well. You're not doing 210% more damage and percentages don't "add up" like that you uneducated morons. 2. "It makes the game worse because all you do is sit in a well and fire" Inaccurate. Bungie keeps creating encounters where the most logical thing to do is sit in a well and spam fire. Nerfing it doesn't make encounters anymore difficult, simply longer because guardians are dealing less damage. In fact, with a worse well, you're just spamming the fire button for a longer period of time, making the encounter more tedious. In D1, raid bosses and mechanics forced movement frequently. Well doesn't work in King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine because you have to run around and do shit basically the whole time. It works in EOW because the boss' crit spot faces one direction, it doesn't move, and neither do you for the whole damage phase. *Edit* In the instances where well would've worked in D1, people DID use Titan bubbles which were functionally identical. It buffed weapons making for quicker encounters and made you invulnerable to damage. The only difference was the 19 pixel strafe to get into and out of the Bubble. Nobody called for nerfs to the Bubble because "every raid encounter needs a bubble!". Stop bringing it up, you will lose that comparison. 3. "It's broken or whatever the non warlock mains keep saying " There's a video of a hunter one shot meleeing a raid boss to death. There are videos of 6 hunters killing Calus and finishing EOW in under 15 seconds with celestial nighthawk and golden gun spam. Some dumb ass streamer wants to talk about a well of radiance that helps guardians finish an event approximately 35% faster and THAT'S the broken thing Bungie fixes? Sorry, but no. Hunters have been leaning on Celestial Nighthawk since D1 and do things with it that warlocks can only dream about. You can break various aspects of this game with all characters. 4. "it's still broken cuz you can one phase bosses" We were one phasing every raid encounter back in Y1 with regular rifts before well ever existed and nobody complained then. You can one phase any strike boss with a well coordinated fireteam without a warlock present at all. Blinding Wells aren't any harder without them and, frankly, the only reason they're useful in Leviathan is because of the reload mechanic with Lunas while shooting skulls during the Calus encounter. 5. "Something something warlocks are OP" You can still beat a prestige EOW final encounter in under 20 seconds with 6 hunters. Can't do that with 6 warlocks. Careful where you toss your OP badge, idiots. Celestial Nighthawk + one guy to tether with Orpheus Rig was the original one phase cheese and you can still mostly do it. 6. "Phoenix Protocol means infinite rifts!" No, you (the warlock) have to kill/assist mobs to generate the new super energy. If there are none (or very few), you get no super energy and it's a useless exotic. Never mind that most self respecting warlocks wear Lunafaction boots to raids and have since year 1, before well ever existed. The infinite well trick only works in the blind well and that's assuming you put it in the right place and get bullets in most of the bad guys that appear. The exotic doesn't just give you free super energy for existing. It's not Bernie Sanders armor. 7. "You're functionally invincible in a well" In PvE, maybe. It's a super after all. They're not called "mediocres". However, in PvP, you absolutely are not invincible. It being mostly useless in pvp because of the fast TTK is why lost of us use nova bombs or the other solar super. 7. "Datto is popular and everything he says is right." Datto gets paid money to play a game you all paid for and play without monetary gain. He is not you, he does not represent you, and his views only serve himself and his popularity. They should NEVER be a guide Bungie uses to dictate mechanics to the rest of the player base, none of whom play the game as often or [i][u]for the same reasons[/u][/i] as a damn streamer. This is his job. It is our hobby. He does not and will never want the same things we do. 8. "Nerf Lunafaction boots" If you nerf Lunas, then OEM, Celestial Nighthawk, and basically every other good exotic better -blam!-ing well be on that list too. Either you burn everybody or leave well enough alone. The effects people whine about are all a combination of an exotic piece of gear and a SUPER. the well isn't infinite without exotic armor and it doesn't reload your weapons without exotic boots. Take into consideration that most players don't get paid money to play the game like Datto or play the game for 4000 hours like many of you. A lot of people don't have those exotics and are staring down the barrel of a super being made pointless for a reason they never got to experience. 9. "Well Datto has a point" Nobody gave a shit about Lunas, wells, or rifts before Datto posted his bullshit rage bait nonsense video about it. Nobody cared if a warlock had a well and Lunas. These were not issues that needed to be fixed. It's just a bored streamer in mid August playing a game nobody is gonna care about for another 2 months with no content to make so he invented a problem and complained about it. Content creators in YouTube do that literally all the time. It's not a real problem, he just needs a paycheck and chose Wells to complain about this time. Nothing he said made any actual sense to a warlock main who actually plays this game. 10. "Well something something pinnacle events well of radiance" You're just salty that nobody cares about your rally barracades anymore. Keep in mind that this is a SUPER with an EXOTIC paired together and Titan and Hunter mains have no problems coming into this community to defend their crutches (One Eyed Mask, for instance). 11. "Bungie is gonna do it anyway" Yeah, screw that miserable company. Why would anybody buy Shadowkeep if they're gonna grind and grind for good stuff just to have it nerfed every time some whiny brat streamer makes a cry video about it. Whatever. -blam!- you, Bungie. 12. "It makes the game boring" No, the game is already boring. Well just made it faster and easier, which is what a Super is supposed to -blam!-ing do. Sure the argument is made that it forces players to play somewhat differently, the fact remains that exotic + super combinations are used as crutches by all subclasses in all aspects of the game. It's disingenuous to single out solar-locks with Lunas when Titans and Hunters also have broken ass mechanics with exotics and supers. Why not change how they play too? Or has this dwindling community somehow, some way not gotten tired of Jotunn noobs or sliding-shotgun titans with OEMs? *edit* Adding one more 13. "It adds variety to the game" This one is difficult to argue in a vacuum because a lot of us do use Well in the same circumstances (mostly raid encounters). However, there are many items, supers, and mechanics that dictate how people play. OEM + Dusk Rock Blues Titans are still an overwhelming favorite for PvP players. Machine Guns and 1k Voices are immensely popular by invaders in Gambit. Hell, guardians cheese Flashpoint by intentionally not doing the public event (and not letting anyone do it) so they can fast travel back and redo the event a second time. People will skip to the end of Last Wish to farm 1k voices and not even do the rest of the raid. And the complaint is that Well reduces the number of ways people play? Thus, the idea of Nerfing well for the sake of "variety" while ignoring all of the other game breaks, cheeses, and gear/supers that dictate how people play is basically just an absurd witch hunt dreamt up by a guy who just needed something to talk about in August when there's nothing to talk about in this game. "I like fixes as long as long as it doesn't change how I play" is a bad reason to change how thousands of people play a video game and "because a streamer said so" is not respecting the people who paid $100+ for this game and all its DLC. Streamers aren't representatives. We did not vote for them.[/quote] Lol..well getting nerfed..woarlocks worthless again..lmao..titain master class..BUBBLES BACK!

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