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Edited by TJ_Dot:
8/14/2019 6:50:06 PM
26
If Well gets nerfed and the next raid boss is another target sign, it will still not be challenging.
Outbreak and grenade launchers will shred it regardless thanks to Lunafaction and Well. (because they'll both still be required, they just won't be as good.)
So much challenge, wow.
You guys have to realize this.
You aren't stopping people from using well if you nerf it, you're actually making it more of a requirement.
The desired effect is to not feel forced to use it, making it worse only creates that, there's no reason it wouldn't.
Boss design is the root of the problem, Well is the symptom.
We don't fix deep gashes with bandaids. Blood with still seep.
Armor stream thoughts if interested:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/253187606
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13 RepliesI was so hoping for a mobile boss when I heard the Ahamkara were going to be revealed in Forsaken. I mean how awesome would that have been to actually hunt down a living wish dragon, chasing it across the Dreaming City, employing strategies to bring it down and immobilize it periodically or try to damage it on the fly... But no. We got the stationary ugly face.
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5 RepliesEdited by blade329: 8/14/2019 3:15:43 PMShooting for a few extra minutes on a bullet sponge is not challenging at all. It's tedious. People use the Well and other meta gear because they want to get it over with fast. The bosses in this game aren't fun.
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This man gets it. The game is flawed cause the design is as lazy as bungie's dev team. Presenting gameplay in pajamas. Holy hell.
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i can see it now, a giant floating red circle.
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Bungie is overrated!
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Talk to that moron Datto and drooly nonthinking idiots that listen to him.
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2 RepliesIt's honestly getting frustrating how defiant Bungie is getting with regards to people killing their bosses so easy. They're so convinced that nothing is wrong with how their encounters are, the problem is the gear we use to beat it. Just stop making every single boss in the game have a stomp mechanic, a giant crit spot, and barely move at all. Why are you so against that?
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2 RepliesI think Luke Smith understands this. Which is why he puts the blame for this on Bungie. Not the players. But at some point you have to put some sort of limits on damage output. Which is why the problem isn’t really Well itself, but exotics that bypass major restraint to player damage output: 1. Armor that give your super back. 2. Exotics/Class abilities that remove the need to reload. 3. Exotics that create ammo and bypass the economy. Each on their own isn’t a problem. But they become a big problem when you start to combine them or start stacking them on top of each other. Bad Juju with pre-nerf Skull or Phoenix Protocol would have laughably broken. You’d have your super continuously.
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12 RepliesIncorrect. Challenge is a combination of encounter design vs gear. If one of those things is severely out of balance, the game does not function as intended. No one is saying encounter design shouldnt be improved. No one is saying bosses that stand still and do nothing during DPS are creative and pose a challenge. What we are saying is that Well of radiance makes it a lot harder to design bosses because almost every mechanic can be trivialised or chessed. Riven doesn't 'stand still and do nothing'. Its the most obvious example of power creep. You are supposed to kill her by popping her cysts and that is made easier by doing damage beforehand. The combination of Well, luna/rally barricade, grenade launchers, and more stackable buffs than we've ever had in the history of Destiny has lead to such a powercrept game that there is no challenge to overcome, and thus no reward. Well (among other things) need to be nerfed, there is no real debate there. Its overpowered. Does that mean its a job well done and everyone can go home? No. They ALSO need to look at the other half of the system and starrt adapting encounter and boss design to fit the evolving sandbox.
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2 RepliesPart of the problem is that no matter how badly they nerf Well, it will still be a must pick. There’s nothing in the game that can bring autoreload, healing, and empowering all in one ability. I doubt they’d ever nerf any of those aspects of Well past the numbers the equivalent abilities have (rally barricade, healing rift, empowering rift) and because of this, Well will always be a must pick so long as they keep making static bosses that do nothing during DPS phases.
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1 ReplyEven if they become completely unviable people will still find a way. The problem isn't our abilities or gear it's the encounters.
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6 RepliesRemember when raid bosses didn’t just sit there and actually moved around and did things? D2 are just a bunch of static bullet sponges that do nothing. The well nerf is just a lazy idea (as was the whisper nerf) because these raid bosses don’t do anything at all. These nerds are because bungie apparently got amnesia and forgot how to make actual challenging bosses and instead made DPS sponges
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wellnerf = refund
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4 RepliesDid you read the director cut? Luke said they messed up their own philosophy in encounters, that called for supers like well. If they stop delta scaling everything and make encounters like raid bosses more like D1 well won’t really be needed.
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I don't think the game/engine can actually handle active bosses, the basic enemies already glitch out as it is and the active parts they do have are SO basic. Like the vex minotaur melee is literally just "once you're in x range" it starts rushing at you, and it KEEPS doing it even when it makes no sense. The AI in general is just poor quality, you get enemies who run by you because they're programmed to reach some specific spot before they actively engage you...
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Make it a boss that aggressively tries to kill you. It could still be damaged while it's hunting/attacking you of course, but engaging a certain mechanic/ritual triggers the main damage phase. Big stationary bosses are part of the reason why most high dps weapons and gear get nerfed. It's why no one likes the Exodus Down Boss...because he moves around and dips the -blam!- out when he starts taking damage. Either that or just upgrade Trevor and set him loose.
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[quote]Outbreak and grenade launchers will shred it regardless thanks to Lunafaction and Well. (because they'll both still be required, they just won't be as good.) So much challenge, wow. You guys have to realize this. You aren't stopping people from using well if you nerf it, you're actually making it more of a requirement. The desired effect is to not feel forced to use it, making it worse only creates that, there's no reason it wouldn't. Boss design is the root of the problem, Well is the symptom. We don't fix deep gashes with bandaids. Blood with still seep.[/quote] Let’s be honest, they’re going to nerf grenade launchers into irrelevance. Outbreak will probably suffer the same fate too. Your point stands though. Even if they did nerf both GL and OBP people will just move to Darci or Rockets again and keep using well.
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Target sign 😆👍
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4 RepliesWeapons of light is returning so we'll see what'll happen
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1 ReplyBungie needs to stop designing the raid bosses all the same way. More specifically, immune targets that become stationary bullet-sponges during the designated damage-phase. If Bosses we more agile and aggressive, especially DURING damage-phases things like Whisper and Well wouldn't be NEARLY as viable. Obviously the bosses have to give you a chance to actually hit them with everything you've got- but I think the damage phases can drag on too long AND the bosses need to stop going completely stationary during damage. Also if our exotics and weapons are 'too powerful/unpredictable' to account for- maybe try designing bosses that aren't/can't even be damaged by weapons to begin with? What if a raid-boss could only recive damage from supers? Or specific relics/items like the scorch-cannons etc? Maybe the boss doesn't even have a traditional 'damage-phase' and instead the purpose of the encounter is to lure the boss into a trap/pitfall or a super weapon or an arial-strike? This way the encounter gives the boss a fixed amount of damage it can receive and things like 'OP' guns aren't even an issue to the encounter beyond ad-clear or boss-flinching?
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1 ReplyNerf the well, doesnt matter you can half stand in a titan bubble and still get their buffs while your top half is still outside shooting the boss
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There's been plenty encounters made where a well was not the optimal thing to use.. it's that simple
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Outbreak nerf is coming it’s inevitable.
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This song doesn't even rhyme....terrible
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If only there’s more bosses that force you to move and shoot... Hasapiko ftw
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5 RepliesWell is not getting hit. Read Directors cut again
