JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by orangeDNA_: 7/23/2019 3:57:28 PM
48

The terrible state of Crimson (and how to fix it)

EDIT: My point isn't that "Crimson sucks because it's useless with this oddly specific loadout!" My point is that Crimson isn't too optimal. There are plenty of avenues that give regen/health that are much more effective than Crimson. It's a sub-optimal choice in the grand scheme of things and if players doing difficult content who actually want survivability will go with other, better options. The ease of healing with Crimson is nice, yes, but in most content, constant healing isn't needed unless you're playing super aggressive, which is why many other healing options are much better. Devours, healing makes, code of commander, etc do not take an exotic slot, but also give me similar effects to Crimson. I just think Crimson can be better. Crimson sucks. Not only is it not unique at all (perk wise, but I can you can argue it's a copy off of Red Death), but its overall feel and power is not that great, and Bad JuJu does its job but better. The main problem stems from its main perk (along with some other things), which allows it to regenerate health of kill and reload on precision kill. The problem with this is that there are a lot of avenue for quick health regen that Crimson isn't nearly as useful as it should be. If I want health regen, I could always use devour to get the regeneration or a rift. Granted, those are all warlock abilities, but the point still stands. At least for a portion of the player base it's completely worthless, except, perhaps for its reload perk! But no that's also very easy to replicate. Lunafaction boots, titan barrier, hunter dodge, etc. can reload your weapon I would say much easier than Crimson. Additionally, comparing this weapon to Bad JuJu, its shortfalls are highlighted once again. Why use Crimson, when Bad JuJu essentially does it's job but easier and better? Simply pairing Bad Juju with devour allows you to completely replicate Crimson's abilities, but in an easier and better because all kills reload the weapon (compared to Crimson which activates on headshot kills) with the added benefit of extra damage and super energy. Lastly, Crimson's masterwork is slight and not very useful. Crimson already has decent range (especially given that it's a HC and pulse rifle combination), so a masterwork that gives it extra range it's not too useful in light of its other major issues and the fact that it's hard to take full advantage of the range unless you're on PC. The weapon also has a low magazine that is really punishing if you miss a precision kill, have to deal with multiple enemies (in PvP), or are dealing with majors. The obvious conclusion is "git gud," but on console at least, the recoil can make you miss shots and not every will always be a precision kill, even if you're a good player. You will inevitably miss a precision kill and get punished for it quite hard with it's port reload (and possibly your poor positioning if your playing very aggressively) What can be done to fix Crimson? It's a hard question because everything Crimson does can be done by other abilities or weapons, so it's hard to make it unique without getting a rid or nerfing a lot of avenues that allow for health regeneration or reloads outside of exotics. To fix ur there are two avenues: 1) return it to the original (D1 y1) Red Death. Returning it to a 390 pulse rifle with its OG perk (along with the new reload on precision kill perk and it's 27 bullets in magazine from D1) would actually make the gun very good. It would deal with its low damage and magazine problem and allow you to better deal with large amounts of enemies since you would be forced to play farther away. Additionally, adding a stability increase with its masterwork can really help it. However, part of what makes Crimson unique and fun is that it allows you to play very aggressively and get rewarded for it if you're a good shot. This change would completely change the fantasy of Crimson. But, as I said earlier, this aggressive power fantasy can easily be replicated if you use devour along with something like an SMG or handcannon. 2) keep it as Crimson, but buff it in a way that makes it more unique and fun. I talked about how the power fantasy of Crimson is to run and gun, being very aggressive and getting rewarded for it, so to make Crimson better, another option would be to lean into this fantasy as much as possible. I would give it a new perk, where on precision kills, in addition to reloading your weapon, you would get the buff "[Blank]," which gives you a slight damage boost, a handling boost, and better accuracy. There's very little you can actually do to make it a better weapon other than buff damage (we see a similar situation with bad juju), but the increase to handling can really help in the heat of the moment. Lastly for the Catalyst, I would add a slight stability boost and magazine boost of 3. That's all, thanks for reading, and thanks to my friends of the clan "The Ashen Conflux" for ideas.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Tldr Plenty of other guns 👍

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • And despite all of this crimson is still better than lumina.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • that gun doesnt do enough damage to be effective. If you fail to kill anything for whatever reason it's just a crappy pulse rifle.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Edited by Asylum: 7/23/2019 7:14:48 PM
      Just shard it

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Step one delete the gun Step 2 bring it back as a pulse rifle with 390 rpm

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Yeah just give us red death

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • How to fix it would be just to turn it back into the Red Death exotic pulse rifle again. I hate that Bungie turned Destiny into an old western shooty pow pow game. It's meant to be a futuristic space shooter with magical space zombies yet everything seems to be a revolver from the old west.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • I literally raid with this thing I would die a lot more if it wasn’t for it

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • It just does the damage old 110s did before the go fast update pre-forsaken. For whatever reason it didn’t get buffed with the damage that 110s got.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Disagree strongly Crimson is a life line to solo pve stuff (especially anything with a while mechanic) and it's belter with top tree Gunslinger & hand cannon armour perks (enhanced D'City stuff especially) It was my go-to for the Ace quests & debuff Lost Sectors during Faction Rally's. Crimson is fine. The catalyst is fine. The ornaments? Not so much.. but the gun performance is tight & it sounds boss. Also.. 3 burst hand cannon? Ahm.. yes PLEASE

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • How about changing the main perk of masterworked crimson to : "hold R to change firing mode between burst and single" . While in single mode, ammo restore on precision kills will be replaced by some other perk and necessary RPM adjustments.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • It’s actually decent, it’s just that other handcannons are in a better spot. Honestly I wouldn’t mind a small buff

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Honestly I think the gun is super interesting. It's just the ttk is too slow. Feels like it should hit a bit harder

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • don't get me wrong its certinly a unique looking gun i like the perk for headshot kills to get ammo back which is somthing i didn't like with red death but it does need some love here not a complete rework but some changes are needed to help this thing

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • I miss Y1 and how it shined...

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Nah, just buff damage slightly

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • 2
        The problem with crimson is it's terrible ttk at a 0.93. with 8 crits. Meaning out of ur nine shots 89% of them needs to be crits. Only handcannons slower are one 180s and 110s. This is a problem considering it's faster and an exotic. It needs a slight buff to drop that down to 6 crits 1 body. Bringing the ttk to around 0.81-0.85 better ttk and more forgiving. The new ttk will be slower than a 150 but faster than a 140. Considering it's the fastest firing hand cannon this seems fair and the fact it's damage drop off seems to be far more severe. Fix the ttk u fix the gun

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • Juju and Crimson don't do the same thing. Devour isn't an alternative when it's only 1 subclass perk group out of 27 that can use it, and it doesn't have the same amount of uptime.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • It simply doesn't do enough damage. That's really the main problem.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • [quote]The problem with this is that there are a lot of avenue for quick health regen that Crimson isn't nearly as useful as it should be. If I want health regen, I could always use devour to get the regeneration or a rift.[/quote] There are other classes besides Warlock. There are also Warlocks whom use Empowering Rift and/or don't run bottom tree Void. Crimson is very useful for sustain. I like to keep it in my inventory just in case things go awry and I need a little bit more sustain, I just swap some guns, get Crimson out and can start healing from kills. [quote]Additionally, comparing this weapon to Bad JuJu, its shortfalls are highlighted once again. Why use Crimson, when Bad JuJu essentially does it's job but easier and better? Simply pairing Bad Juju with devour allows you to completely replicate Crimson's abilities, but in an easier and better because all kills reload the weapon (compared to Crimson which activates on headshot kills) with the added benefit of extra damage and super energy.[/quote] Again, not everyone is bottom tree Voidwallker. So just saying "Oh. Crimson sucks because with this other gun and a specific tree of a specific subclass of a specific class, I can do something similar with a shittier weapon" is not a particularly good argument. Honestly, I think Crimson is better than Bad Juju. Crimson has better bodyshot damage, better target acquisition to land headshots, more shots per mag to try and get the kills to get the momentum going and innately heals on kill. Which kind of shows just how bad Bad Juju is... [quote]What can be done to fix Crimson?[/quote] Honestly? Just giving it a bit more damage would "Fix" it and make it pretty decent. It's overshadowed in PvP because its TTK is pretty garbage while in PvE it's a bit too gimpy to really use as a main gun. Personally though? I'd love if it became a single shot HC... Not a big fan of burst fire guns... I mean, the alternative could be keeping the triple bullet shot, but do something similar to Warden's Law where they're shot simultaneously, or something like Graviton Lance where they're shot insanely fast so there's only minor deviation from recoil. I dunno... Just something slightly more interesting than "This HC wants to be a Pulse Rifle" Leave the Pulse Rifling to Pulse Rifles (I.e. Add Red Death into the game)

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          7 Replies
          • Bad Juju and crimson are fundamentally different weapons, designed for different purposes. They aren’t really that comparable. One gives you super energy back, the other keeps you healed up. Both have the ability to never need reloaded and fire three round bursts, but that’s about all the similarities.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Your comparing a super generating gun to a health regen gun and your saying they basically do the same thing? Are you high? Not everyone plays warlock nor should they.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Have a quest where you take your Crimson to one of the black armory forges and turn it into red death. Problem solved.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Red Death felt better. It still feels weird having that three round burst come out of a hand cannon.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • Edited by cesar0s: 7/22/2019 8:38:04 PM
              Crimson is awesome. Problem is you kids cant hit crits to save your life, and you expect super high HC levels of damage. With that said--Crimson had its day some time ago...as did many other exotics that "feel" underwhelming now.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • Crimson > Red Death

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              You are not allowed to view this content.
              ;
              preload icon
              preload icon
              preload icon