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7/20/2019 11:09:11 AM
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It’s a wasted perk.
You basically run out of primary ammo unless you constantly juggle weapons.
I think it’s Bungie trying to force us to use special and heavy weapons on trash mobs so that we don’t save it up for bosses and mini-bosses.
Any weapon with Subsistence is basically shards.
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Not really.
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Yes really. The boost to damage output from not having to reload isn’t worth the penalty you pay in having your ammo supply do harshly restricted.
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Is that why tons of hardcore vets use it? Just look below in the comments, many disagree with you. Perk is fine.
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Edited by TheArtist: 7/21/2019 2:19:06 PMAppeal to authority fallacy. ....and many agree with me. The ammo restriction isn’t a nuisance in pvp. You’ll likely die and respawn before you run out of ammo. But it breaks the weapon and basically forces an overall damage output penalty onto the pve player. Using a weapon with Subsistence is like being back in the Destiny 2 beta when you were constantly having to switch weapon to keep from running out of ammo. It’s a bad perk that needs a redesign.
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Nope. Its great in PvE. Seems like you need to rethink your playstyle, or use somthing else. Its a great perk and doesnt need a redesign.
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Edited by TheArtist: 7/21/2019 2:45:19 PMAnd you need to improve your math. As a player of both Division games, this is core to evaluating build strength. Subsistence give you a minor boost in burst-damage in return for a major penalty in sustained damage because of the harsh limits to ammo reserves. In pvp burst damage is what sets the meta. But in pve—especially with primary weapons—susatained damage is king. It’s why Bungie ends up always having to break White Nail. It’s ability to create ammo out of thin air turns it into a sustained damage monster.... ....and it’s also what makes Bad Juju so effective. I get the same effect as Subsistence but without the hit to my ammo reserves or my sustained damage. So no, I won’t change how I play to accommodate the perk’s design flaws. It offers no benefit to the game that other weapons can’t do—and do better.
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Edited by Pure: 7/21/2019 2:46:39 PMexcept none of that matters because there isn't an ammo problem, nor sustained dps loss using the perk if your playstyle is correct which is why people use it : )
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Edited by TheArtist: 7/21/2019 2:58:53 PMTake a Subsistence primary into Tier 3 Reckoning and see how fast you run out of ammo and how little time you have to run around scrounging for it. Then take Bad Juju or Outbreak Perfected into that same content... and see how different the experience is. There is no “correct” play style. There are just play styles that accommodate or fail to recognize the weapons profound weaknesses. Which are not counterbalanced by benefits of sufficient merit.
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Don't need either because there are taken, and taken means unlimited heavy ammo :)
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Take off the mods, kid. Like I said, you’ve simply accommodated the weapons flaws by adopting a workaround.
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No? Youre playing a looter/rpg/mmo in which your play style, build and gear are intertwined. Your playstyle is as relavent as the gun and gear youre using. You just cant understand that. The perk is good, just because you cannot use it well enough, does not mean me (and the people below you) can't. If youre asking someone to singularly evaluate one perk on one gun ignoring the activity and playstyle and acompanying gear, then your putting it in a scenario in which it would [b]NEVER [/b]be used, which is pointless.
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Yes and optimizing the performance of that build to a fit a particular role or function is the goal (I’ve been playing these kinds of games probably for longer than you’ve been alive). Subsistence fails in that regard. It is a “damage” perk that is a minor burst damage bonus that forces you to drag around a major sustained damage penalty. For anyone working on a DPS build in pve it is a garbage perk. Thorn and Lumina do similar things but without the reserve ammo penalty. The issue isn’t that I can’t figure out how to play with Subsistence. It’s that I understand there is no benefit to doing so. Anything it can do other weapons can do better and more efficiently.
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[quote](I’ve been playing these kinds of games probably for longer than you’ve been alive).[/quote] And yet I probably have more raids.. more flawless runs.. more 2mans.. 1mans... solo's flawless missions... almost every achievement... many many flawless trial cards... speedruns and god rolls on everything ill ever need. Yeah, we can all showboat, it doesnt make you right. Clearly you havent figured out how to fit your playstyle around it, because its a great perk with no changes needed. Obviously other guns can do its job better, Recluse exists... that isnt the point. An austringer with subsistence cant be better than a recluse, no matter what perks it has. Outlaw rampage isnt better.
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So what? Clearly that experience hasn’t taught you to theory craft or properly min-max a DPS build. Because anyone with a basic knowledge of these sees that Subsistence is a bad perk pretty quickly. In order to accommodate it you are forced to alter your play style in ways that reduce your overall damage output. Bungie reducer reserve size in an effort to “balance” this perk, and as usual they went too far. Way too far.
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Incorrect. Have a good day, since it seems you will disagree with basic supporting evidence and experienced players, an agrerment cannot be reached.
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And you are making an emotional argument that is at odds with basic math. Goodbye. It’s a waste of my time trying to reason with someone committed to being irrational.
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You got it right, i totally agree with you
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It's good if you have rampage on it.
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I got one with substance and demolishenist. Talk about a garbage roll.
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Oh, they want us to use special and heavy? [spoiler] [Laughs in Recluse] [/spoiler]
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Oh they want us to reload [spoiler]laughs in bad juju, loaded question, and auto loading spike nade swarm[/spoiler]
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My Austringer can have 19 in the clip I’ll feel the need to reload then realize I still have 10 in the clip.
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I love me some bad juju
