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6/16/2019 3:03:53 AM
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It’s not broken.
[b]Its Lord of Wolves from Destiny 1.[/b]
It’s freaking people out because the ability to kill quickly has been stripped from this game and turned into a snowball mechanic for winning teams.
So a lot of you have gotten into some really bad habits that there is now a weapon capable of [i]punishing.[/i]
I watched Mtashed’s video of this supposedly broken weapon. And what I saw was a lot of people making bad decisions and getting wrecked.
People who lost situational awareness.
People out of position.
People running at their targets in a straight line in the open...and getting punished for it.
Also it was nice to finally see a special weapon shutdown a super again.
English
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Edited by RingersCheckmate: 6/17/2019 4:26:09 PMAt what point did LoW hit for 30 to the body in a ten round burst? Did I miss something? After looking at some D1 gameplay, it hit for 48 in a 5 round burst. In a game where impact/damage = OHK Range, D1 hits for 240, D2 hits for 320. (In a single burst)
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The only change is that LoWs now does enough damage to shutdown a super. In a game where special weapons have largely been STRIPPED of that ability. What you forget is that in D1, shotguns could easily shut down every super except the ones with the most damage resistance. The game finally has a credible threat to the shotgun ape....and the wannabe sniper who loses situational awareness.
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I’m fine for specials doing more damage to supers. But when LoW can OHK at SMG falloff ranges it’s a problem. LoW was always a niche weapon, with its range kinda holding it back. Now that it has 320 damage in a single burst, it makes felwinters look like a pre buff 4th horseshit in comparison.
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Edited by TheArtist: 6/17/2019 5:05:31 PMNo it’s not. It’s an exotic special weapon with a limited ammo supply. Someone carrying it has to give up both his special weapon slot AND his exotic slot to carry it. So the notion that it should be outperformed by a short-range legendary primary is not reasonable. Bungie broke a lot of weapons in their drive to protect this game’s underpowered primaries. All you’re seeing is LoW take back the spot in the game is occupied in D1.
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Edited by RingersCheckmate: 6/17/2019 6:58:56 PMI’m not saying SMG’s should outgun it point blank, but the weapon makes every SMG, auto rifle, and most hand cannons redundant. If I have any of these equipped while LoW exists in this state I’m handicapping myself. Some maps don’t even have the space for one to backpedal away from this things OHK range. Unless I camp, I guess? I can use my special exotic slot on telesto, merciless, or literally ANY other special exotic and it’s not as broken as this thing. I just realized, I literally shouldn’t use chaperone over LOW. It replaces it entirely, LoW kills farther, with less aim. Man. Guess I’m only in PvP for werner’s bounties now. As a side note, you can’t balance D2 PvP around D1. LoW doing 240 damage in a single burst in D1 is a lot different than 320 in D2, especially with the range tuning shotguns have gotten. It’s a different sandbox.
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You didn’t say it directly. And it doesn’t make short range primaries redundant. It just means you are in a MISMATCH if you try to take it on at short range with a primary. Which is why you DONT DO IT. I get tired of listening to pvp player talk as if they should never have to think about what they are doing or ever have to switch tactics or loadouts.
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Edited by RingersCheckmate: 6/17/2019 10:14:39 PMI think you mean “just don’t use cqc primaries”. Lord of wolves does what all CQC primaries do but better, and with scavenger mods you can be up to 100+ shots easily in a few kills. Which won’t be hard either. I’m actually depressed thinking Chappy’s replaced for the time being. Why use chaperone, when LOW has more range, requires less aim, and more ammo? What a predicament. I’m serious; some maps aren’t big enough for the backpedaling required to get out of the OHK range of LoW right now. It must’ve taken that bioware dedication to neglect the LoW to get this mess out the door.
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The maps are the problem.
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Edited by RingersCheckmate: 6/18/2019 12:16:32 AMI mean it’ll make snipers and pulses better, but I don’t think balancing the game around maps that don’t exist is the way to go for this one. I mean, I guess if first light or bastion came back we’d have two maps to counter LOW.
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For all of you continuing to argue with this person, his stats speak for themselves. 0.7 in comp and 1.0 in qp. His opinion is biased towards keeping the gun as is because it is an easy weapon to use with release the wolves up at all times. You can't argue with someone who isn't at least decent in pvp, no offense to anyone who isn't. This isn't saying he can't have an opinion, but take it with a grain of salt based on his own stats. Hoping Bungie will address it in this week's twab.
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Edited by TheArtist: 6/17/2019 4:50:08 PMOnly one problem with your dismissive argument. 1. I don't use the weapon. So I have not dog in this fight other than being sick of seing good weapons broken on the Altar of Hypocritical Gear Blaming (Eveyrone else has to adapt so I can keep playing the way I want). 2. If I SUCK at PVP...yet I'm don't find the weapon difficult to counter (I had 2 years of experience fighting against it in Destiny 1 and know how to do it)....THEN WHAT THE -blam!- IS YOUR EXCUSE FOR HAVING DIFFICULTY WITH IT **MLG**? 3. The reason why I don't find the weapon a problem is because for THREE YEARS I played against Lord of Wolves, Plan C, and a SHITLOAD or other weapons that could OHK at that range. So I learned out to manage distance and stay OUT of the range of such weapons......and how to CLOSE DISTANCE under cover and get inside the reach of the weapon. The last time I faced The Chaperone, I stopped a guy's kill streak at 28 kills. BECAUSE I OUT-**SMARTED** HIM. I took advantage of his over-confidence and baited him around a blind corner. Where he run into me at point-blank range WITH MY OWN shotgun out. Where I had the advantage of my shotgun not needing a headshot to OHK....and his did. Oops. That kind of mindskill play has been stripped out of Destiny 2...this game is basically nothing but a game of twitch speed and team shooting. ...and most of you guys have just gotten used to apeing at people with shotguns and supers. Secure in the knowledge that nothing can kill you fast enough to punish you for not making use of cover. Well. Those days are over. Have fun. I'm enjoying atl the SALT.
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Edited by DrDavid1120: 6/17/2019 5:17:15 PMI don't know where the salt was in my post. I can't take your opinion seriously since you don't do well in pvp. It is nothing personal. You can talk all you want, but from what you say, my guess is you play more passive. Pulse and scout rifles and lane more than aggressive play style with shotguns/smg/hand cannons. There is nothing wrong with that. But I prefer an aggressive playstyle. Shotguns/fusions with smgs. I agree that counters should be available, but having only one weapon that counters both shotgun rushers and supers provides limited loadouts. If bungie is going to leave lord of wolves as is, other weapons need to be buffed to act as a direct counter. Fusions are a good start as the high impact variants have about the same kill distance, but it is unlikely for bungie to buff multiple weapons. Itll be easier for them to nerf either damage with release the wolves or range. One of those has to change. My two cents on the weapon. Edit- bungie has made the promise of balancing pve and pvp separately with shadowkeep. They already showed that they can with telesto. They can do it again with lord of wolves.
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Took a looooong time, but you finally posted something that I am in 100% agreement with. :D
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Agreed. I can only speak to on console, I imagine it may be a bit more issue on pc. However, I've only been killed by low maybe three times this week and I've played quite a bit of crucible. It's most likely all these shotgun heros who don't play intelligently suffering from it.
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Edited by TheArtist: 6/17/2019 4:08:32 PMI think its mainly an issue on PC. Aim-assist for all weapons is higher on PC, if you play with a controller.... ..and the hand cannon meta is more deeply entrenched in PVP on PC. Whereas on consoles its split between HCs and pulse rifles. So I think PC players are more accorate with LoWs....and you have a PVP player base who just aren't used to having to face a challenge to the dominance of HCs...as well as probably a lot of players who never saw what the weapon could do in the first game. (And don't understand that its always been this good. Just not this **controllable**) Whereas on console, HCs aren't so dominant. So its a simpler matter to simply back up and got at the spammers with a pulse rifle and stay out of LoWs reach.
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Says the kids who hasnt played competitive this season. Go play comp and tell me how many people are using it and how many times you die by it. The gun os broken. It hasnt always been good. NOBODY used it until now.
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No. Says the guy who knows that this game's PVP is a garbage experience built on a broken foundation. If the current "problem" wasn't Lord of Wolves, it would be something else. ...and that something else is ALWAYS a different manifestation of the same problems that have plagued this game for 5 years. 1. This game's PVP shares a common sandbox with a loot-based RPG. So the sandbox will NEVER be balanced in the way that pure comp shooter gamers want. Vanilla Destiny 2 came the closest to that achieving that....and it nearly destroyed the game. 2. This game tries to replicate Halo's PVP, without understanding what it was about Halo's design that made that game work. IOW, the TTK in this game is TOO SLOW in relationship to how fast the player's move. This game needs a TTK that is about 600 ms...or 0.6 secs. But Bungie insists on keeping it around 0.8 to 0.85 secs. So what happens is that the game becomes one-dimensional and predictable. People either spam special weapons.....like Lord of Wolves....to compensate for the fact that it's too easy to run away form a losing primary weapon fight...and too difficult to punish people for poor play. OR....people mass up and team shoot. What I call the "Sonic the Hedgehog" strat. Where they literally just stand shoulder-to-shoulder and roll around the map in a ball of guns. ...and every...single...match you play in this game plays out in a variation of one of those two main startegies. Over...and over...and over....and over again.
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The only problem with the gun on console is that u get bonus damage for just holding square. If they made release the wolves only do a double shot instead of it giving a damage boost too, it'd be fine. On PC i wouldn't know, but on console I don't mind where it's at now bc with the burst fire it's not a OHK weapon so u have a fighting chance. Plus at 12-14 meters ur burning the equivalent of 4 shotgun ammo to get one kill which a good dustrock would do the same with 2 ammo.
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I'm going to have to disagree. The weapon is capable of OHKing people even in supers up to 20 meters away. In a sandbox where practically nothing else can do that it's by deffinition broken. It doesn't matter if you prefer quick ttk or long ttk. It's an outlier in this sandbox by a wide margin. If Bungie wants to push the game back in that direction fine. Bring up other weapons to do so. Otherwise LoW needs to be reigned in. TBF I don't even care about it's potential. My problem is how the player isn't asked anything to have this power. They don't need to headshot, they're not limited by ammo, there is no threshold requirement. it's literally just special reload whenever you can to always have it up. You can't tell me that's in anyway balanced.
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[quote]The weapon is capable of OHKing people even in supers up to 20 meters away. In a sandbox where practically nothing else can do that it's by deffinition broken.[/quote] Fusion rifles can do that. Especially Jotunn. Which is another exotic **special** weapon.
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Cool. That doesn't in anyway take away from my point.
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Actually it does. This game will NEVER be balanced. The only way that this game's PVP can share a single sandbox with PVE and NOT DESTROY the PVE side of the game....is by having weapons like Jotunn and Lord of Wolves. ...and having PVP be a game of COUNTERS....not balance. Those wanting a "gun skill game". This isn't your game...and it never will be. If Bungie hasn't "balanced" this game in five years of trying....what makes you think the next 5 years will be any different?
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You're dodging the argument. No one is asking for or expecting perfect balance. Just because balancing is hard doesn't mean that we give up on adjusting weapons. There are decent suggestions that address its issue in pvp without ruining it in pve. (and it was already a decent gun in pve anyway.) Jotunn is a projectile that can be countered by closing the distance or having good movement. Fusions have a charge time and thus give you time to dodge and also time to attack. Neither basically invalidate other weapons in their optimal range. Asking them to tone down its damage over range and require a kill to get the special reload will not hurt how great the weapon is in pve and pretty heavily handles the pvp issues.
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Edited by WulfPak666: 6/16/2019 5:55:04 PMToo bad Luna can't relaible cancel these people out anymore like it use to.. Aside from the gun being one of the only guns to actually deal with pesky supers outside of heavies, I think this gun just highlights the mindset of the average pvp guy. The "I just wanna rush and get easy kills" guy, of course. People have become waaay to reliant on bum rushing with shotties. I mean unless the person you're aping either draws his shotty or mows you down with Last Word before you shoot them, there really is no resistance when it comes to shotgunners. Now, y'all get punished, hell, obliterated for doing that and they hate it. LoW makes their whole play style obsolete, until they use it themselves. But of course now all "bum rushing shotty" guys with become "bum rushing LoW" guys cause that's how Meta trash works. Meanwhile, you can easily beat a LoW user by giving them a Hot Toaster ball from the next map over before they get into any kind of range. Let's not talk about Wavesplitter or Cold Heart. I'll let the YouTubers stir that pot.
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[quote]Aside from the gun being one of the only guns to actually deal with pesky supers outside of heavies, I think this gun just highlights the mindset of the average pvp guy. The "I just wanna rush and get easy kills" guy, of course. People have become waaay to reliant on bum rushing with shotties. I mean unless the person you're aping either draws his shotty or mows you down with Last Word before you shoot them, there really is no resistance when it comes to shotgunners.[/quote] Exactly. When vanilla Destiny 1 launched back in 2104, the TTK for most ARs was about 0.6. So---if you landed your headshots---you could ERASE shotgun apes who'd try to rush you over open ground with just your primary. But when Weisznewski insisted on increasing the TTK to 0.8 secs+.....shotguns and other special weapons started to dominate. ...becuase they simply kill to SLOWLY relative to the speed guardians can move in PVP. So the only option Bungie has come up with to wallpaper over this FUNDAMENTAL design flaw is to STARVE shotguns and snipers of ammunition in ways that NO other shooter has to. ...and they reason why they dont' have to is because they allow their primary wepaons to KILL FASTER. But in Destiny 2 special and heavy weapons have been so starved of ammo compared to D1....that these shotgun apes and super users really just have had NOTHING to fear. They could simply run STRAIGHT AT YOU, secure in the knowldeg that----unless you had an active super or heavy ammo----that there is not a damn thing you can do to stop them. Well now there is something---once again---you can do to stop them. ....and like you said, the whining is reaching ear-splitting levels.
