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Edited by TheArtist:
5/17/2019 12:16:47 PM
228
Cozmo, dmg.....we need to talk.......
I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would.
I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both.
People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER.
Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games.
This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have.
The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered.
IOW.....
[b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b]
The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way.
...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN.
...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad.
They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted.
To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game.....
It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this....
...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.
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[quote]I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would. I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both. People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER. Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games. This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have. The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered. IOW..... [b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b] The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way. ...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN. ...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad. They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted. To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game..... It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this.... ...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.[/quote] Bump
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4 RepliesIf it’s not clear as to “why” they do these things, let me explain. Bungie looks at the numbers of which weapons are used the most. Then they look at the effect/strength of those weapons, then they nerf. It’s clear after all these years that [u]Bungie staff RARELY play their own game[/u] They don’t know the meaning of [u]feeling POWERFUL[/u]. They play just enough to get a feeling for the gameplay, but since they already know the end content, there isn’t a reason to grind.
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Edited by Blind-N-1I: 5/18/2019 12:07:21 AMI’m convinced that Bungie has hired extremely inferior developers at pay rates far below the industry standard. I really can’t think of any other logical answer as to why they’re so horrible at managing D2 in general. I almost feel sorry for them because it’s painfully obvious that they have no idea what to do with this game, and ALMOST every decision they make is absolutely counter to what the dwindling player base wants. I’ve never seen anything like it.
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power doesn't come from weapons and armor. It comes from within.
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KG, after reading the TWAB, I just shook my head and chuckled. I was immediately brought back to the Black Hammer nerf. Back in vanilla we used to joke that Bungie didn’t know what they wanted this game to be. That was in 2014. Now, almost five years later, we are still having the same discussion. There are moments of brilliance and moments of senselessness. I have no idea what’s going on over there but I hope they sort it out.
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10 RepliesPowercreep
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1 ReplyI used to think the same way. I will admit nerfing things sucks. What they should have done was make other exotics more useful before making these nerfs. It's a slippery slope. If the game is too easy to Han you have people complain. If they nerf all the best exotics making the game more challenging, people complain. It's unfortunate that Bungie hasn't figured out the best way to do this after so many years. As I previously said, make crappy exotics more useful and then nerf the over powered exotics. That would be the best approach.
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you’re the best kelly
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Yep. I want to wreck shit. I want to be powerful and low level enemies are swatted away like a fly.
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I haven't been on the forums since the end of the last season and I can see that Bungie hasn't learned a damn thing. How Fudging Insulting: 1.). Still arguing about enhancement cores?! Really Bungie, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out. 2.) Nerfing, nerfing, and now more.... Nerfing. When the -blam!- are you guys/gals going to clue in?!? Unbelievable, it truly is unbelievable that there are people in this community - like KG - that are light years ahead of you in terms of understanding WHY people play your game and what motivates them to continue to do so. When are you going to take down the 'Destiny play our way' banner and replace it with the 'Destiny, become powerful' banner. Absolute f_cking idiots.
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This, bump
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1 ReplyEdited by TripleF73: 5/18/2019 4:06:01 PMWhilst I’ve already upvoted and fully agree with all of your points Mr Green, I feel that it is an utter waste of our time and effort, articulating our dissatisfaction with the way the game and franchise has turned out. Bungie aren’t listening, they have an agenda and that’s now fine with me. I have realised that I’m not the customer they are looking for. After spending over £340 on Destiny 1&2 with all the DLC/ Annual Pass accoutrements, Bungie have realised they can do without any more of my money. I loved the original game so much, even with its growing pains, Bungie still felt as if they listened to us as a community. D1 just went from strength to strength. If D2 had just kept the economy of D1, given us all the content but interwoven the adventures into the main campaign (Red War) of D2, kept trials and Faction rallies but also kept factions like D1 in-between rallies and introduced mantling. Nobody would have complained. Until CoO 😀👍. Seriously though, I never thought as a grown man, with a modicum of intelligence, I could hate a company so much over a -blam!-ing video game. They say hate and love are two sides of the same coin, well in this case it’s true. I really loved D1. Valour in Darkness Emblem, along with 2550 hours and 458 raid completions proved it. I have come to hate D2 for all the mistakes you, Bungie, have made with it again after not learning from the same mistakes you made with D1. I can’t see how I can ever bring myself to return to this franchise and that makes me very sad. This has turned into a rant. FFS. Sorry about that. Staying in D1, until BL3 arrives.
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I absolutely agree with every word you said. Very good post 🤙
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Gourd post!
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Agree with you except for the fact where you think they wonder why players are upset. They know, they went through this when they nerfed Blackhammer in D1. THEY JUST DON’T GIVE A FLYING FOOK!
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Massive Upvote
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7 RepliesCommunity managers are innocent here though. The Sandbox team using these two poor souls as punching bags.
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1 ReplyMaybe this is what's happening inside...
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10 RepliesEdited by Viridis Illian: 5/17/2019 2:30:39 PMBungie have never known what they want lol. It's clear from the endless issues with development, scattered approach to lore and story, constant contradictory progression systems and lack of content. It reminds me of when Bioware came out with the statement that they didn't just make "rpg's" and claimed that Mass Effect was the ultimate, perfect evolution of the rpg..... then stripped out what made it an RPG and made a poor quality 3rd person shooter with a conversation wheel..... Bungie released a loot shooter with RPG elements..... They want a Halo clone with grind mechanics and micro-transactions. I found it remarkably telling that they excitedly announced "new scorn" that use shields and a gun..... Oh, like jackals from Halo then? I feel like Bungie are OK at starting something but never have an end goal in mind and have trouble continuing the project. I said it months ago but I'll say it again..... For Destiny to achieve its full potential, the IP might have to change to a new developer
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3 RepliesI don’t think they wonder about anything. Its more like, “they will hate this, but whatever.” There business model is to have players gaming for hours on end, which means taking your progression down to zero and hanging that carrot a little higher.
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Well said Kelly, your one of the people that makes the most sense in this community! [spoiler]We need to fire Lukey. [i][b]Somehow.....[/b][/i][/spoiler]
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https://youtu.be/FZq6MfGKpQ0
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1 Replyd1 is better than this
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2 RepliesEdited by RebelJack: 5/17/2019 10:04:58 PM"The last thing we want for you to do is look at your favorite gun or piece of armor and considerate obsolete." -Deej pre taken king
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“We’ll pass along the feedback to the team” Is the best anyone can hope for.
