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Edited by kellygreen45:
5/17/2019 12:16:47 PM
228
Cozmo, dmg.....we need to talk.......
I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would.
I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both.
People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER.
Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games.
This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have.
The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered.
IOW.....
[b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b]
The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way.
...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN.
...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad.
They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted.
To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game.....
It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this....
...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.
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2 RepliesI'm bored of these guns anyway, add something new. People just need to stop complaining and let the old weapons die
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Well said....
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2 RepliesBump. I have said this exact thing many times since D2 released. This is the problem that needs rectified if destiny is to be successful again. I told everyone when the whisper mission went live that this exact thing was going to happen. No one that has been here since the beginning should be surprised about this. I knew it was coming and if any of you say you didn’t see it coming then you’ve been lying to yourselves.
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5 RepliesEdited by Xenomorph: 5/18/2019 7:35:59 AMRemember this? “[i]WE WENT BACK TO THE BOARD AND LOOKED AT EVERYTHING AND SAID, ‘HEY, HERE ARE A COUPLE WEAPONS WE FEEL LIKE ARE IN A REALLY GOOD SPOT.’ AND BY ‘REALLY GOOD SPOT,’ THEY’RE KIND OF HOT. THEY’RE PROBABLY TOO HOT FOR D2. IN D1, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SAID (PROBABLY CORRECTLY), THAT MEANS WE WOULD NERF THOSE THINGS. THEY’RE NAILS THAT ARE STICKING UP OUT OF THE BOARD, AND WE WOULD HAVE HAMMERED THEM IN TO BE EVEN WITH THE BOARD. FOR THIS UPDATE, WE DID THE OPPOSITE. WE SAID ‘THESE THINGS ARE KIND OF HOT. LET’S BRING EVERYTHING ELSE TO THEM.’ SO WE STARTED RAISING EACH THING UP WHETHER IT BE IN PVE OR PVP.[/i]” Source: https://gamerant.com/destiny-2-nerf-popular-gun/ I guess playing video games for the purpose of recreation and [b][u]FUN[/u][/b] are being nerfed as well. This isn't the game I bought, played at launch through the crappy period, only to see it improve with Forsaken (sans cores for infusion), now this. I simply bought a different game than what this one has turned into... And that's why I no longer play it.
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22 RepliesDirect quote from TWAB; "For Season of Opulence, several notable weapons are being adjusted. We want to ensure that encounters—raids and other endgame content, for example—remain a challenge. Some of these weapons have been overwhelming that challenge. Our first choice is to buff underused weapons, but if we continue to push every weapon up higher and higher, it will be impossible to maintain challenging experiences." The latter part literally tells you everything you need to know. Bungie has no clue (shocker) how to balance this game, not even from PVE point-of-view (anymore??). Literally telling us, players, hey, we thought about buffing some of the absolute garbage stuff in the game, but decided not to, because... reasons??? Because the game would become too easy? :D Honestly, please... Giving some of the utter shite gear and weapons a meaning, like my favourite, when speaking about this, Aeon gear pieces. If they actually served any/some purpose, other than perhaps -blam!-ing around, wouldn't "break" the game and/or make it easy (easier). What it might do is actually make someone actually use them. Instead of giving us more choice, Bungie limits it even further by making stuff people love to use less powerful now. If they carry on, everything will turn into a grey mush of average, where everything is shit, and nothing is fun to use. It's puzzling to me that almost EVERY TIME players find these great weapons, gear and skills that they love to use, because of the "power-fantasy", Bungie steps in and bam, nerf. I guess you are not meant to have fun playing D2, nor feel powerful. No, no, instead Bungie goes and nerfs, yet again, a huge amount of things, because they are must-haves for certain encounters. I mean, even that tells you that Bungie has failed, and they are openly admitting it right there. Also, if I remember correctly some time ago Bungie promised that they were done with nerfs, yet it has been constantly happening. I also 100% agree that Destiny 2, an RPG-Wannabe, has one of the worst progression systems I've encountered in a game of this scale (budget/manpower/etc) in a long time. They literally have no clue about that either. But then again, they don't seem to be playing their own game anyway, so how would they know what works and is fun, and what doesn't and isn't :D
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3 RepliesWe need to stop playing this game. We need to get the numbers really low so bungie doesn't have a choice but to undo the changes. Whatever you say right now they won't listen. They'll listen when less and less people are playing. If all these complaints are made but by next season everyone is on they aren't going to do a damn thing. Right now they're probably reading these posts and laughing at all the complaints. They figure that everyone will stick around like they did when the taken king came out. And people were upset about gjallarhorn, elemental primaries, black hammer, bloom etc. But since everyone came back like nothing happened bungie never changed anything back. Yes they brought elemental primaries back as exotics and buffed hand cannons in rise of iron but it was was too late imo. D2 was on the horizon. Don't let them make the same mistakes. They can't have a game with no playerbase.
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2 RepliesThey’re nerfing these weapons because we use them too much for their liking and removing the challenge from endgame activities but they don’t even ask [i]why[/i] we want to blow through these activities so fast. Two things (among many) are killing the PvE experience right now and causing players to abuse powerful weapons: 1) Destiny relies [i]far[/i] too heavily on repeat content, and... 2) ...that content is designed in a way that stifles creativity and maximizes frustration. We all see it. We all know it. The same PE’s, the same strikes, the same raid, the same thing over and over and over again, and while they may be fun in a “I’m doing something new with my friends” way, after the two hundredth time running any of these they get picked apart like a movie you watched one too many times. The replay value of these activities is finite, and the higher level activities function on such rigid adherence to rules and timing that any attempt to try something different (you know, like with different weapons?) proves at best futile and at worst disastrous. So players use the same powerful gear, Bungie nerfs it, and everyone hates Bungie. But the nerfs and weapons and players aren’t the problem. Bungie, look at the fundamentals of your design philosophy. Stop making these puzzle boxes so annoyingly strict and give players more opportunities for variety. Otherwise you’ll just keep nerfing things. And we’ll keep hating you.
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5 RepliesThe problem is that they have to balance PvP in tandem with PvE. Warframe lets you attain absurdly overpowered gear because of how much more PvE focused it is. I mean, shit, you can get guns that fry enemies through walls or frames that kill everything in a 20-mike radius. Even with nerfs, Warframe’s gear stays incredibly effective. And they can stay this way because of the loose standardization of and restrictions on PvP loadouts. Also, Warframe has a [i]slightly[/i] more fleshed out loot system.
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"bUt MuH PoWeR fAnTaSy!!"
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[quote]I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would. I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both. People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER. Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games. This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have. The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered. IOW..... [b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b] The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way. ...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN. ...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad. They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted. To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game..... It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this.... ...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.[/quote]
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[quote]IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/quote] No? Max INT gave you a 4:00 recharge time. Bad JuJu existed but as a Warlock main Obsidian Mind wasn't a quarter as strong as Skull is right now. There also wasn't anything for for the other classes. Fact of the matter is being able to nova after nova after well after well is broken unless it's in a mode designed for it. There's zero way to excuse it.
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Well said!
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1 ReplyI don't mind the nerfs. I do mind that all the underused weapons and armor aren't buffed. Aeon Cult armor. How great would that be for nightfalls and raids if the effect gave energy to every ability? Class, grenade, and melee? Maybe a small amount of super energy as well. After all, you did want to make it so that increased super energy came from allies. How great would it be if the Whisper nerf came along with a Merciless buff? The Ace of Spades nerf coming with a Crimson buff? Lord of Wolves nerf coming with Borealis buff? Bungie can save this without losing face. They just need to buff older and unused exotics. Cosmo. Dmg. You guys are given a bad hand as the bearers of bad news. Pass it on that nerfs of overused weapons need to come with buffs to underused weapons.
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I'll pass your feedback onto the team
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1 ReplyHey guys, did you realize that beyond this nerf that cores will stay as well???? This is the greatest thing ever.
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Well put Kelly. Bungie doesn't need another game to be a Destiny killer they are doing a fine job of killing Destiny by themselves. This game only gets my time when it's fun to play and they are really trying to kill that fun. This isn't an adapt moment, this is a bone head decision.
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3 RepliesKelly....honestly, I think they have intentionally done this to try and kill it. But I wholeheartedly agree. I want to feel powerful. I want to get to the point where I can just blow a knight away by just looking at it. To me that’s rewarding for my time when playing patrols, old content, and the like. About the only reason I log in now is to go buy 2 chores, I mean cores, to stockpile them. It’s really sad. I don’t even use them cause it’s all so broken.
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Hell, the armor that gives super energy back isn't the issue here. The issue is ALL the USELESS armor. We had some iffy armor in D1 too but we had way more viable armor. We had armor that gave double nades which was nice, like Sunbreakers giving double solar nades... Now they suck ass.
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4 RepliesWhen people talk with their wallets, companies may sometimes be obliged to listen. Speak volumes y’all.
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1 ReplyThe game ip should just be sold back to Activision and bungie should be taken off the project so it can be developed by a competent development studio. Ive said for years to stop blaming Activision. They're scum but the repeated failures of destiny have always been bungie's fault. And now tat Activision is gone, bungie is free to make the game as bad as possible. At least before they had to generate revenue.
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Agreed... All these exotic armor gives you a great feeling of being strong. I don’t care if they made things “easy”. I just want to have the experience of being powerful. With all of these nerfs coming, might as well become weak instead of legend...
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Edited by HellfireEclipse: 5/18/2019 1:38:08 AMI like the changes. i can finally use my veist weapons with people binching
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While the nerfs do have a point, most players don't care about the why. The simple fact is that players will leave the game because of these nerfs. My biggest problem is we have to grind to a new level cap. I loved the fact that the exotic armor that is getting nerfed made the pointless and annoying grind go faster. I'm tired of doing the exact same activities over and over again. The powerful exotics made it much less tedious.
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Black spindle had one purpose....the kingsfall raid. Whisper should not turn into a one or 2 encounter weapon like you guys made it in d1. Especially not after the work we had to put in to earn it and upgrade the catalyst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Edited by torch327: 5/18/2019 12:52:19 AMThese nerfs along with along with the broken elements of the game just took alot of the desire to play from me and I'm hoping it takes alot of the desire to play from my wife, the only reason I even play anymore. Right now the broken element that just gets me raging is not getting credit for kills towards "Atlas, unbound". I haven't been playing IB alot through the season and just started last night and am at 20/500. I would be OK with this if ALL OF MY KILLS WERE COUNTING, But they aren't. I check after each match and games where I would kill 5-6 final blows(kill feed shows me getting killshot) I get credit for 1 maybe 2 kills. Today I watched the kill feed from 2 hours of my gameplay I saved from yesterday and I tallied 74 kiills from the kill feed, but yet I'm only 20/500. That is less than 1/3 of what I actually got. I was all set to spend the weekend playing nothing but IB solely for the reason of the triumph, but at a rate of 20/74 actually applying it just isn't worth it. I would have to get 1500+ final blows in order to get credit for 500. I don't think so
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[quote]I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would. I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both. People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER. Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games. This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have. The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered. IOW..... [b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b] The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way. ...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN. ...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad. They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted. To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game..... It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this.... ...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.[/quote] Bump
