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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by TheArtist: 5/17/2019 12:16:47 PM
228

Cozmo, dmg.....we need to talk.......

I can see that the array of nerfs that were announced in last night's TWAB are going over **about** as I expected they would. I've really got to ask you---your devs really---a very simple question: [i]Do You Really WANT To Be Making a Loot-Based Game With Destiny?[/i] I ask this because at every turn for the last 6 months I see you guys doing things that show that you either don't UNDERSTAND these kinds of games, and what motivates people to play them......or you don't RESPECT those reasons why.....or both. People play games like Destiny in PVE for one simple reason: POWER. The power to do things in the game that they can't do in real life. They GRIND for more power, so that the game gets EASIER as they progress in the game. BECAUSE THAT SENSE OF POWER IS THE ONLY THING THE GAME HAS TO OFFER. Yet for the last 8 months, you're devs just keep SABOTAGING the game. At every turn you are either REFUSING to give the player power....or taking BACK power that has already been given...and yet you seem confused as to why player are angry...and why they are getting frustrated and going to play other games. This game has one of the most broken progression systems I've ever seen in a loot game. At every turn its designed to limit what power (loot) the player can get from the game, and pry out of his hands (cores) what power he does have. The other half of the problem is the sandbox. You are asking people to grind inordinate amounts of time for rewards THAT ARE NOT POWERFUL, AND DON'T MAKE THE PLAYER FEEL POWERFUL. We grind for "pinnacle" weapons that are basically nothing more than god-rolled Legendaries from D1. You have an entire ARMORY of exotics that are basically USELESS. You have legendary heavy weapons that are almost laughably underpowered. IOW..... [b][i]NONE of the items that got nerfed are "broken" or overpowered from a PVE persprective. IF YOU GO BACK AND PLAY DESTINY 1, ALL YOU GOING TO SEE IS THAT THESE EXOTIC ARMOR PIECES SIMPLY GIVE YOU YOUR SUPER BACK ON ABOUT THE SAME RHYTHM THAT YOU GOT IT IN DESTINY 1 IF YOU HAD A HIGH INTELLECT BUILD.[/i][/b] The reason why people only use those exotics is because they are the only one's in the sandbox that make you feel powerful....and the only ones what actually CHANGE how the game is played in a meaningful way. ...and now you want to take that power Away....AGAIN. ...AND YOU WONDER why people are mad. They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. [b] That player effort will be rewarded with power..[/b]..and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted. To the point where Whisper of the Worm has been given the EXACT same treatment that Black Hammer did. We LITERALLY have gone in a big circle with that weapon. I assume the next move is that it too will be removed from the game..... It is LONG past time your devs stopped hiding in their offices, and actually FACE this community and get to know them....and understand WHY it is they play this game. Otherwise they are going to keep doing TONE DEAF things like this.... ...and they are eventually going to lose this game...and lose its players to OTHER games that understand them, and reward them.

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  • Take that power away... Super regen exotics should be fine. I get it’s fun to throw 6 novas a minute. But with orbs along with the exotic you really should be fine.

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  • You smashed it Kelly Green! I think I had 1 or 2 disagreements with you in the early days of d2 but you are so consistent with your well thought out posts... who could argue with this. Unfortunately, I think it is bungie themselves that is beyond saving. Almost every tweak they've done since forsaken screams contempt for their remaining and loyal player base. The season pass? I didn't purchase and never have I been so glad not to have forked out for an update! I'm off back to d1 (my 1 year old miraculously managed to fix my ps4 so it plays game disks again) hope to catch you there 1 day dude. Vote Kelly Green for bungie CEO ;)

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    • Agree 100%

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    • The Speaker is dead? I think not. He is right here, speaking. The voice of the Traveler is the voice of reason and truth. I would follow him till the end.

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    • I'm with u 100%

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    • I don't think so...

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    • I applaud you Kelly but Bungie doesn't care. No matter what they say I don't believe them. This is about Bungies own ego and inability to create a challenging encounter without resorting to the exact same set up.. Stand over here.. DPS.. Mechanic, mechanic Stand over here.. DPS If they actually THOUGHT about what makes a challenge good.. them maybe ppl would just want to burn the boss down ASAP??

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      • Frankly I'm glad we're getting these nerfs. Were they needed? No Were they asked for? No Will they make the game any better? No Are they going to prevent players from leaving? No Will it encourage players to come back during the next season? No So to be perfectly honest I completely forgot where I was going with this

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        • The problem is that Whisper should have just been released as what Black Spindle was. Whisper was unhealthy to the game as was Orpheus Rigs. The problem they created was a severe case of power creep. Those two exotics in year 1 broke D2 hard and continued to break every encounter Bungie released in most aspects of end game. You just can't beat unlimited supers or unlimited heavy ammo unless you design encounters specifically around those two things happening or not being able to happen. Then this community complained about all other exotics being too weak so they made more of these game breaking exotics to the point the end game literally shattered. Either all of the end game is easy because you have one of these exotics on your loadout, or its pretty difficult if you are running some other exotic. You should feel powerful, but not all the time and not in every activity. The raid should be a struggle, the nightfall for 100k should be a struggle. tier 3 reckoning should be a struggle, etc. Other exotics that are never used should be buffed absolutely, but not to where the current S tier exotics are at. [quote]They are mad becasue you are breaking the fundamental contract that lay at the root of every good loot game. That player effort will be rewarded with power....and people are getting angry and frustrated because at every turn you want people to play your game, while you refuse to reward them with new power...and TAKE AWAY power that has already been granted.[/quote] This is actually not true. The idea of a loot based game is you slowly build more power overtime but for the end game activities that power build up is what allows you to complete those activities that just make the end game easier, but not a cake walk. Any kind of weapon or build that is deemed "broken" is fixed almost over a week when a dev hears about it. Because those broken builds destroys the game. These nerfs should have been alot sooner before even this season. Go do reckoning tier 3 and don't use any S tier exotic, you will struggle, because Bungie HAD to design that end game activity around those exotics, and it makes them nearly impossible to do without them. It hurts the game, not helps the game when you give too much power for the players.

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          • Huh. I agree with your fundamental premise -that these nerfs, and the prior PvE based nerfs, namely to whisper, were boneheaded- and I expected an intelligent argument. Then you made the correct argument in the dumbest possible way. No, a high intellect build in D1 would not have given you a nova bomb back instantly. That assertion extends beyond stupid, it's disingenuous. That doesn't make your base principal incorrect. These upcoming nerfs are BAD and Bungie need to think long and hard about them, and repeal them. However, your blind and unquestioning conformity to "everything in D1 is better" in direct defiance of materially relevant facts is annoying.

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          • This is a very well though out post, and a well made point. I'm hoping the dev's see this and take notice, because you are right. Loot games like this ARE about rewarding the player with power for collecting/grinding, but far too often now that power is being limited or taken back (nerfed), which makes the player effort invested to get that power feel wasted.

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          • So you want the developers to design their game and all of the raid encounters, strike encounters etc, around having infinite supers? So 100x the adds, 100x boss health, more immunity phases/mechanics, etc? Because that's what having infinite supers does. I wouldn't expect you children to understand that or be able to comprehend that fact, since most of you posting are just a load of 12 year olds having a temper tantrum.

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            • oh crap it's the last array mission again i guess that ghost will scan some computer whilst i take on wave after wave after wave of the hive thanks dinklebot oh i mean nolanbot.

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            • I question whether Cosmo or dmg actually pay attention to the forums at all. I also dont think they have any real voice. It seems like they are here as pr consultants for the game. In other words they try to spin what someone in a meeting room has dictated not actually discuss what we want in that meeting. Player numbers is the only thing this company will understand. That and people buying their content. The state of this game will be dictated when they ask us to pay more money for whatever is after opulence. None of this means anything right now. We are stuck on the hamster wheel. I'm not going to say I wont buy whatever their next big thing is I think we have all said that at one time or another and then wound up back. I will say that I am highly cynical of anything else they release.

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            • just what are you not more powerful than? NOTHING changes are being made and you people act as if they stripped you naked and set you lose into the wild. you are and will continue to be more powerful than everything in PVE changes or not. shallow frail minded people are so weak and scared of change they turn out in droves to pat each other on the back with crap like your post.

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            • So.... you know how all those Nigerian Prince emails have the worst grammar and spelling imaginable? Well, it's not because they can't spell. These guys know that only some poor sucker is gunna think such a poorly written email is legit and that's the perfect mark they are looking for. Perhaps, Bungie are making all these stupid nerfs for the same reason. Perhaps they want to reduce their players to those who won't moan.

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            • Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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            • Thought things where going to get better when activision left, guess not

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            • I mean honestly idk what the game designers were thinking when they brought the Spindle back with the old White Nail perk. They did that in D1 and nerfed it shortly after its release. Anyone remember Black Hammer? They gave us the same lame excuse back then. So why, I ask, did they give it back to us in D2 and expect any different outcome? It’s like they just want to tease us or something. Like...here’s what it could be. This is fun right? Enjoy it while it lasts cuz it most assuredly won’t! Lolz... I think it’s stupid that they’re nerfing some of the very few truly fun exotics. Maybe if the other ones weren’t so crappy, we’d use something else. I think it’s flat out hilarious they’re nerfing the Shards and Ursa again. Those were already shitty. Why the hell did they make those exotics if they don’t want them to do what they were originally intended to do?? Honestly, what are they thinking?! The least they could do is revamp the underused exotics to make them relevant. They don’t just need to take away fun. They need to give some too. Hopefully they’ll be buffing the others some. Though I have my doubts about that...

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            • What did most of you clowns expect? You all celebrated n condoned the nerfing of pinnacle weapons then act shocked exotics anyone can get receive the same treatment lol? Dumbass kids, I hope your short lived celebration was worth it.

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              • Yesterday i kept spamming a quote from ex bungie employee josh hammerick We went back to the board and looked at everything and said 'Hey, here are a couple weapons we feel like are in a really good spot' and by 'really good spot' they're kind of hot. They're probably too hot for d2. In d1 people would said (probably correctly), that means nerf those things. They're nails that are sticking up out of the board, and we would have hammered them in to be even with the board. For this update, we did the opposite. We said 'these things are kind of hot. Lets bring everything else to them' so we started raising each thing up whether it be in PvE or PvP While i still believe this to still represent bungies commitment to us, the player base. The nerfs coming are the step in the right direction, This is as a result of our own greed for power, we as a community have kept on asking for buff after buff after buff, to stuff that still genuinely needs it, and it has lead us to this point where any more buffs would result in a trivial raid/endgame experience. Remember when VoG hard mode was legit hard? Remember when you came up against warpriest and gjallarhorn wasn't the answer. A genuine challenge is missing from the game due to absurd amount of power at our disposal. Want a group of adds permanently controlled? Rigs has your back. Need to drop the equivalent of a tactical nuke on an absolute unit? Angry dead wish dragon says 'move a side'. Then before you can blink, they are ready for round 2, 3, 4... I don't agree with nerfs right now due to fact it seems bungie has no buffs planned for other pieces of gear so... Am i expected to use sturm? Or sweet business? Weapons who haven't seen some love in the last few months Below is Dattos video with a detailed view on the other side to the recent calls to buff everything and nerf nothing. Have an open mind https://youtu.be/a6ilCo9kMf4

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                • Edited by rZI3: 5/18/2019 10:03:02 AM
                  [b]I ask this question:[/b] Will you put the controller down for this game? [b]I ask others:[/b] Will you stop playing [b]Truth is:[/b] We can’t, and that’s why yours, mine and others voices has no weight, that’s why the nerfs will continue and why we are just wind in the forum to bungo, streamers and youtubers are those that weigh in more...

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                  • They got our money already so they don't care about our opinions. They can break whatever promises they made in the past about not nerfing any more guns or exotics in the game because they got short term memory. Nothing we can do about it, except not play the game.

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                      Kelly, I don't always agree with you, but I believe you are a highly intelligent person. Which is why this post bothers me. Not because what you're saying is wrong, it is 100% correct. What gets me is the fact that they've been doing this for what, or or 5 years now and it's the same cycle of stupid mistakes they make. So I have to ask now, is this more you venting in anger and frustration or is this You actually hoping it'll make a difference? Because at this point, I don't think they are going to listen to any of their PVE crowd.

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                      • This whole thing makes me wonder; Did Jon Weisnewski, Josh Hamrick, and Claude Jerome all leave due to an internal power struggle on the sandbox team? As in, they we're against reducing the power fantasy as they're seen where it would lead and they were shown the door. The pieces fall together, but that may be connecting dots that don't actually connect.

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                        • I'm bored of these guns anyway, add something new. People just need to stop complaining and let the old weapons die

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