There is no “good” or “bad”. The Fallen fight for their own “good” cause and we still call them “bad”. The Hive are just doing their own style of worship and we still call them “bad”. We are the “bad” guys to them. And that’s 100% okay..

Anyone who claims we aren’t good, isn’t very educated on the lore. The idea of the Traveler being evil was scrapped before re-development. The evil connotation in species such as the Hive, Taken and Scorn plus the lore itself paints a clear picture that the Darkness is an entity of entropy and death. I can see why one could argue that the Traveler being unaware of its enemies is unconscious evil, but since Bungie takes its lore in the realm of “real possibility”one could argue that if the Traveler never came we would have just been destroyed by the Hive, conquered by the Cabal or found scavenging Fallen anyways so the Traveler is many species’ only shot. In the lore the Darkness and Light are both philosophies as well with the Light having an angelic theme and the Darkness having a demonic theme. That’s the fantasy portion of the game. But great discussion👍🏽

It really depends what you count as good and bad The fallen hate humanity because the traveler left them and chose us and so they are basically jealous though not without good reason the traveler leaving them left them in serious disarray The vex are seeking a single unified lifeform in the universe (the vex) a universe the vex can simulate and have completely laid to waste but made "perfect" because its all vex The loyalist cabal are just an imperialist empire Ghauls cabal are in it for the betterment of their species really ghaul wants the power of the traveler to save his people and we can see he is a decent fellow because he replaced an emperor with a republic and consul alludes to saving the cabal from calus' "greed and corruption" And the hive ultimately comes down to your ideology the hive believe in the sword logic which basically means if you can kill it it deserved to die and that honing the sword (the universe) into its perfect final shape which can not be broken and all "infections" (weaker species) have been purged. They hate the light (or the sky as they call it) because it creates "stalled peace" and "lies" about the nature of the universe and civilizations are false and love doesnt drive the universe evolution does. On top of that the hive specifically hates the sky because the leviathan (a creature who is a proxy of the traveller found deep in fundament, the hive homeworld) told them to stop searching for salvation and instead suffer their measly existence for the "greater good" whereas the worm gods offered them salvation in exchange for them having a worm placed in them that feeds on their nature, if they dont follow their nature the worm devours them but if they stay true to it the worm will grow hungrier requiring them to please the worms increasing appetite basically making them slaves to themselves but granting them near immortality. The light values peace and love and harmony and all that sappy shit. It likes selfless acts and the like but it represents the status quo to the darkness who seek to change the universe into what they deem as perfect. So it really comes down to whether you believe evolution takes precedence over caring. The way i see it the darkness embraces the dark truth(pun not intended) of the universe and giving into the "beast" whereas the light is about accepting the flaws of the universe and choosing to simply deny it and live a buddhist way of life. But it should be noted that the light and the guardians fighting the darkness is only proving the sword logic its proving that humanity is worthy of existing because it cant be broken atleast not yet. It should also be noted that the hives view on life and death has been drastically different from humanity's since before they served the darkness. So ultimately it comes down to which side you sympathize with.

Perspective is everything, my friend.

Hell yea.

It’s all perspective...

Yes, but also no

did you call us bad guys? This insulting of others needs to stop....

Me and my friends have talked about it but as with anything it’s all a matter of perspective. Lol im sure our enemies sure think we are. Immortal bad guys at that.

Do you feel your actions are evil? If yes, then you need to realize that evil is not built like that. There's even a model of it. Chaotic Evil. Neutral Evil, and Lawful Evil. Chaotic- Does whatever they can to purposely harm anything and anyone Neutral- You don't do anything to me, I might do something to you. Lawful- The law is always correct and you are always wrong. We aren't evil. You might be angry, but you're not genociding that faction. You might be concerned, but not frightened. You might be disturbed, but not dismayed. You want to think evil is in a guardian? Not even a dredgen is actually evil because they aren't harming the traveler. If anything, they are saying to be strong enough to kill them.

Matter of perspective. We were evil to The Fallen for the most part. We have The Great Machine....which was with them beforehand. It isn't clear who shot who first, but I'm pretty sure it was The Risen who mucked it all up. They were evil to us for obvious reasons. The Hive aren't necessarily evil either...though they gravitate damn close. They believe an extreme Survival of the Fittest type belief. You live simply because you were better, the prior doesn't for they were weak. Cabal don't view us as evil.....more so just "in the way". Them being evil depends on which Faction. Red Legion wants the old Conquer everything and conscript. Calus wants to conquer too....but actually meld and utilize what others have. The Vex are Chaotic Neutral. They just want to live. We're just in the way. If they need our help, they'll let us know (Oryx invading VoG). To ourselves...we're not evil. Although....we tend to kill everything and everyone that stands in our way to get more power don't we. It just so happens a few things here and there line up with The Light, Dark, and In-between We took part in a Cleansing Ritual for some "thing" fully expecting to get a WoS...instead we accidentally stumble on TLW. We hunted for Thorn for ourselves, not for others, and we did some shady stuff knowing what we'd get. Malfeasance.....was a mix. We didn't help Ada out of the kindness of our hearts...we saw potential powerful weapons and gear. Calus offered us power....nothing else....and we came running. If some other higher power were to come along and make the same offer. Would we do it?

It all depends on perspective.

For some reason i thought of hellsing abridged when i saw the title

I just like to shoot things. Pewpew....pew.

That was originally intended to be the story of destiny, the light was actually the bad guys and the dark wasnt. But instead the decided to make the story line follow the grimoire but that said it seems like the story may be developing to turn that way as the time line of the story moves on.

That said this is a wonderful topic to see here in feedback for once instead of people complaining about crucible, so you bring up a very interesting topic about the story

We actually don’t know the Traveler’s intentions so 0-0

[i]You either die a hero...or live long enough to see yourself become the villain[/i]

It's your DESTINY to choose.

It's the Right Side of Wrong basically. We exist because of an accident, the Traveler fell from grace with the original civilization, the Queen and her people of darkness, and tore through the Veil. Separating the material from the non-material. Tainting them all with the Void, plunging them deeper into the Abyss. Encountering IT. Now the Queen seeks to reclaim the Traveler, to restore their former civilization, but they have been tainted. It won't be like it was. The Traveler, is from darkness. It's power comes from darkness, but it has since altered the properties of that power. Has seeded many civilization over the eons, but all have made the same end. The Queen took them, and made them apart of her army. She only wants the Traveler, and does not care for the mortals living in the material existance, unless they're willing to join her. We aren't the bad guys and the Darkness aren't the bad guys either. It's all about perspective. It's war. Nobody wins a war. The Vex, know this and seek to preserve life at all costs even if that means Light and Dark not existing, and everything becoming "lifeless" in a way. This is why The Stranger hates the Vex. If a side has to win, she'd rather it be Light or Dark. A side must always be chosen, even if both sides are wrong.

Natural selection.