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Edited by Voon:
4/27/2019 5:10:57 PM
57
Instead of fixing a Core Issue Bungie decided to nerf Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten
Disclaimer - I don't play Destiny 2 on Console, My opinions and thoughts could be incorrect. But I want to speak my thoughts on this. Also by "Core Issue" I don't mean Enhancement Cores, I mean a Core Issue within the game itself. Ex: Bloom
This Weeks "TWAB" has reveled the coming Nerfs to the Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten Handcannons, to my knowledge these weapons have created huge problems on the Console side of the game, basically making all other weapons feel worthless once you obtain Luna's Howl. But the reason these weapons were as strong as they are isn't about how strong they are but instead how strong the other weapons are, in particular the other archetypes of Handcannons. Ace of Spades, TLW, Thorn and other Handcannons and their archetypes just couldn't compete with the 180s since the 140s and 150s have a large amount of recoil and bloom and they have inconsistent In Air Accuracy. Bungie decided that instead of fixing Bloom and Recoil on these archetypes, they instead decided to nerf Luna and NF.
Doing this is in my opinion a bad move because it creates what I call "Forced Diversity". I feel SNTR (Say No To Rage) has a great analogy that he uses which is "If you come into a room and the kids are only playing with the trains and you want them to play with the other toys, you dont break the train to motivate their change in behavior." This is exactly what Bungie is doing. Instead of making the other options more appealing they are breaking the Luna and NF. Now im not saying "Nerfs are Bad" but i do believe fixing the other issues like Bloom and Recoil on Console in this case would have made for a better choice since it would make other weapons more appealing. All this Nerf really does is make the gun WAYYYYYY less appealing for M&K players and the weapons will probably still be the best on console anyway, so in a way all this hurts is M&K players. If I had all the power at Bungie I would not allow these changes to go through to the game and instead work on fixing the console recoil and bloom to make the pvp sandbox on console more diverse and fun like PC.
Those are my thoughts though. If you disagree with any of my points please comment, If you agree with my points please comment or consider upvoting this post and share it around, maybe Ol' Bungie will see it and consider other possible routes to re balance crucible on Console. All I and im sure a lot of you want Crucible to be as fun and competitive as it can be w/o breaking the flow or create less variety in the game.
English
#destiny2
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Well there are definitely less posts about cores now and more about lunas howl /not forgotten .
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Luna and NF are a core problem with the game.
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11 RepliesWho cares! Nerf them into oblivion, you pvp elitist will be fine with new meta. Reason I want pvp removed from destiny is bc of this, wedont need an ever changing meta with nerfs galore, we just need real balance but it will nvr happen so just remove pvp already.
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3 RepliesThere isn’t an issue with cores so nothing to fix there
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1 ReplyI respect your opinion man but I'm happy for it becuz of this it's not hard to use 3 head shots on a 180 to kill alot of ppl buy or have a streamer recover there account to these guys they will still do 2 to head 1 to body but atleast ppl like me who loves like nature of beast Ken orchard with kill clip and rampage can acculy stand a chance agenst them on on console I play PC too and I'm scared for PC lunas and nf isnt really use much cuz why when u can use a 3 tap 140 with no recoil but now there going to be 150s PC gonna have to deal with it and ik ima hate it
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3 RepliesStep into iron banana, it doesn't really seem to be slowing anyone down. In fact, they seem to be the only things being used.
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6 RepliesThe meta needs to change on console its been the same since forsaken released. Luna's and nf are easily the best primaries in the game again on console. Pc is a whole different ball
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7 RepliesEdited by Ghost: 4/27/2019 11:45:03 PMI'd usually agree with you but in the case, i feel like the nerfs are warranted and that's just my opinion on that. I'll elaborate. My favorite FPS of all time is Halo 1 because unless you picked up a special weapon (shotgun, sniper rifle, rocket launcher) then you were not one shotting anyone. I'm really not a big fan of one shot mechanics in PvP settings and with LH and NF, you basically can one shot people with a primary slot. That's just dumb and goes against what I'd consider to be actual PvP. Bringing other weapons up to LH and NF levels would allow me to one shot others but like I said, I'm not a fan of that playstyle. It's just not fun for me. The novelty of one shotting others wears off and you then you come to a point where you'd like actual combat, at least I do.
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8 RepliesThey do not give a blam. Community feedback has been pouring in on important issues with this game and they just ignore them. I haven’t played in little over a month. I’m good. I see all these people leaving the Bungie team. I’m not sure if it is bad or good. I can’t imagine these people leaving one after another is a good thing.
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5 RepliesEdited by Tofu: 4/27/2019 5:05:40 PMWhile I hate that the weapon I grinded for back in October is seeing the end of its day in the sun, I disagree. At a certain point, I think it makes sense to hammer the nail back into the board rather than bring the rest of the board up. (Note that I am on console.) With Forsaken, TTK was so greatly decreased across PvP, and that’s great. However, if they keep buffing absolutely everything to match the meta every time a new meta arises, TTK will continue to drop to the point where you’re just getting killed instantly every time you peek a corner. Maybe some, or most, people like that style of play. I just know I don’t. I think some nerfs are appropriate and keeping the meta shifting in this manner is a healthy way to make the PvP environment enjoyable. (I’d be totally fine with them toning down bloom on other HCs, though). I don’t want to say much about console/PC disparities because I know next-to-nothing about PC play. EDIT: next paragraph is useless as I thought OP was mentioning enhancement cores in the title. (Lol.) As far as cores go, that’s two different teams and they’re completely unrelated. Investment for cores and sandbox for balance (I think). Don’t get me wrong, I despise the core situation as well, but it’s not like they could only do one or the other. I think they have every intention of keeping the core economy like this.
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8 RepliesI like how everybody focuses on Handcannons like they are the only thing that matters and ignore things like Autos, SMGs, Scouts. Personally buffing Autos and Scouts would add alot more variety and fun in the Crucible.
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1 ReplyJudging by the comments on the forum I would say Luna was a more controversial issue than bloom
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1 ReplyIt's still a good nerf idk why people are mad it was your choice to "grind" for it plus it's been meta for 8 shitty months get used to it and find your next crutch peasant good luck!
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4 RepliesDidnt read the post, but LH and NF absolutely dominate pvp, there is no reason 2 weapons should best literally every other gun in pvp.
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1 ReplySince D1, that has been their strategy. Lowest common denominator is how they "solve" everything
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5 RepliesThis is a hugely complicated topic: 1-The opposite of "Forced Diversity" is "Forced Non-Diversity". Mtashed posted a video yesterday basically calling people who went into Crucible with an auto-rifle stupid. Why shouldn't someone be able to go into Crucible with an auto-rifle and be competitive? The meta now forces people to use hand cannons and if you want to get good with a hand cannon you better use it in PVE...all the time. 2-How do you make Quickplay in Crucible fun for everyone, not just the top tier players? Bloom is a way to lessen the skill gap and at least give the newb or casual a chance instead of getting insta-killed. Remember when the top tier players complained about SBMM in Quickplay saying that it was no fun because they just got matched up with sweaty players. Well, now all the newbs and casuals have fled and now the top tier players are complaining that the sweats have taken over Quickplay. 3-I feel for those that grinded for Luna's and NF. But weren't these guns basically designed for Competitive play against other Top Tier players? Why the need to promptly go into Quickplay and start slaughtering casuals and newbs? Even shooting fish in a barrel can get boring after a while. Maybe a little self-restraint could have avoided this nerf. I could go on and on but will stop. I just want to finally ask, isn't a large and healthy player base good for all those who enjoy Crucible? Finally regarding SNTR, he lost all credibility with Anthem. He raved about the game first couple of weeks probably influencing some people to buy the game. Now, nothing. No acknowledging mistakes or apologies. Even Mtashed made a video saying he made a mistake. Now SNTR just makes videos ragging on Destiny. Pretty easy work that anyone can do with any game.
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1 ReplyThis what Bungie has become.... Lazy and uninspired. They cant even deliver their time gated content correctly: Where are the Vex on the Tangled Shore? These “developers” hardly play test...dont do any quality control...they lazily patch and nerf and kill the player experience. It was never activision.
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5 RepliesIf they fixed boom first it would just make the lh nf issue worse before it got better.
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1 ReplyEdited by SaltySi: 4/29/2019 5:56:46 PMI agree 100 percent. In pve there is enough diversity of map size, damage requirements, distance variation to allow for using multiple guns. However realistically speaking, there is ZERO need to use anything but a hand-canon for most encounters. In PVP, poor map design and terrible attention to gun performance variety have led to meta after meta after meta, because nothing can compete with hand-canons. Somehow they beat scouts at range and sub machine guns close up. What kind of sense does that make?!? A guns optimal performance should drop off drastically outside of the optimum range. The fact that you can barely land a precision head shot up close with a scout but can map a player with a crit from a handcanon is bonkers.
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8 RepliesThis is nothing new. Bungie have proven themselves VERY efficient train-smashers. Consider: * When Sunbreaker was newly released and admittedly a bit overpowered, Bungie did so much damage to the subclass, it became pretty much a joke. It took them, over a year to rebalance it * When heavy pulses like Red Death were devastating PvP, Bungie announced their plans to deliver about a 7% nerf, which would probably have balanced them. Instead, they delivered a 19.4% nerf, which turned them into unusable garbage. * When Clever Dragon was the go-to pulse, Bungie rebalanced it by slowing its RoF, which would have been fine alone. But they added to the insult by insanely reducing its capacity, rendering it one of the saddest guns in Destiny. * When shotguns were being used too much, Bungie took away special ammo on death, making loadouts effectively impossible. This forced me to take up Invective-camping and grenade-spamming, partly because a primary alone was inadequate and partly on principle (they were trying to bully players into relying on primaries, and I can't stand giving bullies what they want). Two years, and I still get angry when i think about it.
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14 RepliesThe ‘core problem’ is high powered pinnacle weapons that generally the better players will get and have the skill to use. Essentially making the best even better. What a stupid idea.
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4 RepliesIt's not [i]just[/i] the bloom that's the issue, it's the perks as well. Obviously with Luna's having possibly the best in the game with a guaranteed 3 tap that's up and ready for every engagement. Or Ace with that guaranteed 2 tap once you get a kill and the perk rolling on it. What else can compete with that? Thorn's perk is decent but not only does it require a previous kill you ALSO have to run over to pick up the orb AND it's only good for a few seconds. That's a lot of extra set up to basically let it do what Ace does already with less. Same with Recluse. It's a good perk, but it needs a prior kill and it's only for a few seconds. What other weapon class even has a perk like that? Breakneck [i]kinda[/i] does, but you need 3 kills to get the most out of it. That's just completely unreasonable. Bungie just isn't competent enough to bring other weapon types up to match with Luna's, so this is what we get instead.
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1 ReplyI can’t wait for Luna’s/NF to STILL dominate on console because they’ll continue to be the only precision HCs free from bloom/ghost bullets
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1 Replyagain with core fake issue? lmao , btw they adressed it on new season
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4 RepliesEdited by Lethal: 4/28/2019 10:36:34 AMThe problem is, now players do not have any reason to grind for legend in comp lmao, and Casuals will still get farm by sweaties, good players will always abuse meta and best weapons. Quick example, who give a -blam!- about Iron banner fusion “pinnacle” ? No one! Because it suck ass What makes a player good is not the weapon but the player’s map awareness, aim, callout, strategy etc... and casual dont have that , all they do is sitting back with their bygone or blast furnance and saying they dont like handcannon (OF COURSE -blam!- HC are precision shot weapons if your aim sucks, u will suck with it) , pulse are the easiest weapon to use in pvp, but i guess this is the meta bungie and noobs casuals want, sitting at your spawn and just pre aiming and wait.
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Spot on. Unfortunately, Bungie’s approach to balance has always been to gimp what is (deemed) OP while leaving the core issues of the game largely untouched. (TL:DR at bottom) The nova warp nerf is a great example of this, the super was vastly superior to anything else in the game for months. When Bungie finally decided to address it, they made it obsolete. Similarly, shards of galanor were nerfed because they were too strong in mayhem. They are now useless in PvE and PvP when Bungie stated they could balance the two independently of each other. Furthermore, spectral is currently OP and, while I agree with it needing adjustment, the fix they stated will completely gimp the super. It will become useless and give way to the next “OP” super. I believe the problem is Bungie’s inability to manage player power and a lack of transparency. Their intent to nerf Luna’s/NF further proves this. I can only speak for myself, but there are only two reasons I use NF: 1. It feels amazing to use 2. It is the only true pinnacle weapon reward While it may have one of the best TTK’s in the game, NF provides gun play that no other gun in the game does. The reality is, bloom -blam!-s hand cannons on console making gun fights feel like an RNG loot box, not a contest of skill. With NF, you win or lose a fight based on who can land their shots not who got lucky with bloom. For me, this is why I use the gun. Luna’s/NF and the previous super nerfs show the core issue with Destiny; the sandbox. There are a stack of guns in Destiny that feel absolutely awful to use, are incredibly weak or, are just flat out useless. It tends to be the same with supers. This perpetuates the tall poppy syndrome that is prevalent with Bungie’s adjustments, when one weapon or ability begins to break away from the mediocrity, Bungie pulls it back down. I believe, a better solution is to adjust what is underperforming (99% of the sandbox) but Bungie is just too lazy to fix the mess they made. [b]TL;DR: The core problem with Destiny is that sandbox is full of mediocre guns and abilities, continuing to nerf what feels powerful just makes the game feel slow and stale. [/b]
