I saw and see still a number of posts saying [i][b]"Thorn is underwhelming." "Thorn is terrible!" "Thorn was way better in D1!" "It can't beat Luna or Not Forgotten, this gun is terrible- it's an exotic!"[/b][/i] Thing is, before 180 RPM Hand Cannons became meta, 150's were popular- the most popular Crucible Hand Cannons in the game. But then 180's came out and they can roll with higher range and faster TTK's. Specially the main culprits being the PvP Pinnacles. Most people forgot how to even use a 150 as a lot of people (mainly console players) stick to 180's because they are easy to use- or they have Luna/NF and why would you use anything else? So is Thorn a bad weapon? No, by far it's not. It's the only 150 HC that can two crit, one body- that alone makes it better than any other 150. Yes it's recoil is really weird... but Thorn has a play style to it. It's no longer an [u]"I am using ___ therefore I win now."[/u] like it was in D1 Vanilla. Heck, all the posts that say [i][b]"I remember in D1, Thorn was deadly and great! Now we have it in D2 and it's terrible! Bungie hates fun!"[/b][/i] ... did you not play Rise of Iron? Thorn was hit so hard with the nerf hammer that it was a hollow husk of it's former self. But here's the thing, the way Thorn works in D2, actually fits it better. Considering that Thorns archetype in D1 was never really good... in D2 150's are still a decent type of weapon, and if 180's didn't exist, probably would still be in first place as far as Hand Cannons RPM's still. So what makes Thorn better in D2 vs D1? Well to start... it's far more useable. Map size plays a key factor in this, as most maps are pretty small in D2- letting you be in more reliable ranges to use Thorn to it's full potential. (If you're trying to snipe people with Thorn.. stop. Just... stop. It can't do that anymore.) Yes Thorn's range got nerfed hard- but it was never meant to be a scout rifle like it was in D1. [i][b]"But the burn sucks! It was way better in D1!"[/b][/i] Yes and no. In D1 Vanilla... oh it was deadly. Two crit and walk away with 7 burn a tic... oh it was deadly. But in Rise of Iron at the end of D1, it was 2 burn a tic. Thorn in D2 however... works in reverse. You start out with Rise of Iron Thorn, and get a kill and pick up a Soul- suddenly you have Vanilla Thorn back for 6 seconds (10 if you pick up two orbs). And then you can start Snowballing- specially if you play something that can get health on kill, like bottom tree Voidwalker or OEM Titan. It's not an ape weapon, you can just run in balls deep shouting Leroy Jenkins and start slaying. You need to play around it. The video linked above is from CoolGuy- a Destiny 2 Youtuber who plays on [b]Console[/b]. He does a great job of explaining how to use Thorn- a lot of which are ways to use 150's by default. I've been in games during my quest to get Thorn where people tried to snipe with it, go balls deep with it, and fail horribly. Or they get steam rolled by people using the meta so hard that it makes you wanna thrown a controller in rage. That's where I say... the gun isn't bad, nor is it underwhelming. You just suck with it. It's not your play style then if you can't do well with Thorn. Myself, playing with Thorn the past 4 days it feels amazing. The only time I have issues- is when I start getting in ranges that it doesn't do well in, people are bunched up heavily on the enemy team, or The Last Word comes into play. The Last Word in it's optimal range will blow you away- never challenge a Last Word in close range with Thorn. As far as dealing with heavy stacked teams? Play the peek shot game. Personally I like to run The Vow bow, a crit shot hits hard enough that a quick swap to Thorn will kill on a crit. Or run a sniper- but I prefer a bow cause that takes Primary Ammo. [i][b]"But Luna's and Not Forgotten are still better than it!"[/b][/i] ... duh? They should be. They're the Pinnacle weapons for PvP. Do I have them? No. Do I hate going against them in Quick Play? Oh yes. But do I think everything should be better than them? No. If you want to fight a Howl weapon, play smart. Avoid the ranges they can be good in, peek shot them. If you want to make them burn to death with Thorns perk active... do not walk away. If you're going to challenge a Howl weapon, stay in that fight. Do not turn your back to them. In a nutshell... Thorn is a good weapon- it's up there in the top tier. If you think it's bad when you use it... well maybe you just suck with it, and should use something else. It has a slight skill gap in it's use- just like Last Word. Clearly... you don't meet that skill requirement. Stick to your Trust and Service Revolver- or even your Howl weapon. You'll have a better time.