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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
1/31/2019 5:14:52 AM
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Anthem will force Destiny 2 to define itself or fade into mediocrity

Yes, I read all the articles on how the Anthem "VIP" early access weekend was a dumpster fire fueled by Burnt Edge Transits. Search "anthem is" with Google search suggestions for a few laughs. Ignoring the technical failures (a safe assumption since later articles reported the Anthem VIP early access was an old build missing many important patches), Anthem shows a lot of mechanical and design promise that will force Destiny 2 to adapt or lose out. Perhaps the biggest innate advantage for Anthem is the complete lack of PvP. With a PvE only game, you don't have to deal with balancing items against PvE and PvP a the same time, or maintaining some sort of balance split. You can balance the game around crazy paradigms that would be ridiculous and broken in PvP, because there is none. Other factors that suggest Anthem is gearing up to eat Destiny 2's lunch: A transparent Diablo-like stat system where you can minmax and view objective progression, deeper character customization, more gear progression, and much more differences between characters. No matter how much of a Destiny 2 fan you are, there's no denying it would be difficult to make a talent tree with fewer features. You get a choice of 2 class ability variations and 3 jumps (across all specs), then 3 elemental specs each with 3 variations. Even Shadowgun Legends (a mobile game often compared to Destiny) has a deeper talent tree system. With Anthem as a credible mechanically superior competitor, Destiny 2 will have an identity crisis: Anthem looks like it will have far superior PvE than Destiny 2. However, Destiny 2's PvP is also a joke (stale meta, terrible matchmaking, thorough inability to dodge or put up effective mitigation, excessively simple mechanics, poor design, poor control responsiveness, lag issues) compared to e-sports grade MOBAs. If Destiny 2 continues on its current path, a rational person will look at the situation and ask: "Why should I get Destiny 2 when I can play Anthem for PvE, and Overwatch for competiive FPS?" In short, this leaves Destiny 2 in a bad place as a jack-of-all-trades that comes up short against its peers in PvE and PvP. Earlier today I read an article regarding the modern trends in big-budget video games which said these days, there are only "A" grade and "D" grade games with little in between. You absolutely have to be on top of your game or fall behind - badly. What can (and should) Bungie to prevent Destiny 2 from falling behind? I recommend first and foremost, pulling out of PvP as much as possible. The video game market is already way too saturated with e-sports and MOBAs, and with how far behind mechanically Destiny 2 is on that aspect, it isn't worth throwing tons of resources at PvP to get something that looks like some semblance of an e-sports worthy title. Over the Forsaken expansion, Bungie has been increasingly falling into the trap of blurring the lines between PvE and PvP - pushing Gambit (the worst game mode), forcing players to PvP as part of new exotic questlines (Ace of Spades, and supposedly the more recent one that spawned many angry posts). This needs to stop ASAP. If you keep pushing Destiny in the PvP direction, Overwatch and Fortnite will eat your lunch anyway and by then you might as well start throwing your resources in a trash bin for all the good it will do. Throw all the focus on PvE, move as many developers and testers as possible over to PvE. Maintain a skeleton crew to maintain the existing PvP/Gambit (with the occasional balance update especially for new gear with every wave of content). Definitely don't waste time creating new PvP modes, ever. If you lose the upcoming battle to Anthem, it's because you didn't move enough resources to PvE. In fact, you should be moving resources to PvE while you're reading this. First thing to do, fix the character builds/talent trees into something with extremely deep customization specifically designed to outdo Anthem. Old-school World of Warcraft style talent trees would be a good starting point. Whether you like it or not, you've stepped into a talent tree and character build customization war with EA/Bioware. Next, itemization. Add more weapon and armor perks, make their effects far more pronounced and have major effects on gameplay. Add more sockets and socketing options on weapons and armor, vastly increase the drop rate. Add a PvE progression system where characters actually get stronger as they gear up rather than some arbitrary power level that only serves as a way to gate content. Finally, there are way too many weak exotic items. For every great exotic item, there seem to be 2 or 3 that are for all practical purposes hardly an improvement over a purple. This needs to stop. Every exotic item should be a defining, even game-changing part of your build, instead of something that throws a lackluster 10% bonus on something you only use 20% of the time, for instance.

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  • It's a bit like a comet speeding towards the earth And people are closing their eyes and putting up an umbrella! Of course you could always slate the demo, if it makes you feel better? But the launch is coming, and I presume they'll iron out any issues that occurred on the 6 week old demo. And its obvious to say that a big chunk of the destiny player base will migrate. And then if Anthem continues to develop, more will go. Destiny will counter by reskinning Gally or and vex Mythoclast Or reskinning the cabal lol Annual pass will drop providing 3 1/2 minutes worth of content. And people will go Back to being as bored as they are now. Forums will brim with toxic soup, and destiny sales will reduce even more. Activision gone, Bungie will struggle, and deliver even less. Meanwhile pve in Anthem will have grown and grown, and one day your average player will wake up saying "Why am I still playing this shyte?" I'm a long time big big player of destiny, been loyal to this game for 4 1/2 years, being top 5% in D1 for time spent playing. But I'm bored bored bored with this game atm. Reskin after Reskin, revamp after revamp of old weapons Pvp sucks, with a massive pile of weapons at our disposal, but a hand full of weapons always being the meta. Cry babies in pvp destroying pve constantly Virtually no new enemies since launch Lies and deceitful behaviour, and Bungie not the slightest bit interested in listening to its audience. Masterwork cores, lack of exotics dropping. Even when they do they suck and special abilities absolutely boring. Anthem is looking mighty fine atm

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    • The #1 selling point to me when it comes to Anthem is not having to deal with PVP. If I wanted to play PVP, there are at least half a dozen games released each year that do PVP better than Destiny.

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      • ...Yeah, one phrase..."EA"

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        • Edited by lCertifiedl: 2/2/2019 7:05:11 PM
          I've played the demo and see the potential but it ain't destiny. I can see me sinking a few hundred hours and then being done, unless the have a good end game which we haven't heard much about then j think players will get tired pretty quickly. Destiny's mechanics and gun play are want keep you coming back and Anthem just didn't feel polished to me. I think borderlands 3 would be a completely different matter though. Gearbox need get it sorted.

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        • [quote] I recommend first and foremost, pulling out of PvP as much as possible. [/quote] There you go, invalidating your opinion is step 1. :D They are actually different games, and if I actually get Anthem; I'd still play D2 for the crucible. What I think they should do (since dedicated servers seem beyond their comprehension) is construct PvP-only loadouts.

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        • So it sounds like Anthem is only gonna make buff patches since no one is going to complain something is op. And the community is happy when they feel powerful with the weapons/abilities they use. Sounds like nerfing is a stupid idea and Bungie shouldn't listen to crybabies who want everything good nerfed. Hmmmm............🤔

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        • lol I really doubt it. EA is already being sneaky with keeping micros almost unknown until launch with the exception of the leak that showed a basic ass skin that pretty much painted your javelin black and gold and that’s it. The skin costed $20. I could paint the -blam!-er black and gold for free. They of course were forced to respond since it involved micros at ridiculous prices and they stated it was only one iteration of the pricing. Even though I’m skeptical I’ll probably still buy it since I got a better paying job than my previous one and I’m feelin gassed.

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          • Anthem has more problems than destiny. It’s complete shite.

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          • I hope its a wake up call. Division 2 is looking pretty good as well. It bums me out thinking of all the old friends that have moved on and never returned. Hard to get the “It factor” back, once you’ve lost it. Here’s hoping they figure it out.

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          • Can you just stop it with anthem anthem is a different game very different so stop talking about it on these forums

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          • I disliked this because you suggested pulling pvp. Sure you went to a lot of work to write which I appreciate however I think the pvp truly is the life blood of the game. Sure we all like having some pve for a lite hearted jam but the truth is that pvp is where metal is tested. No pve enemies present such knife edge moments as pvp does. Sure there are pinnacle activities like raids and night falls but once you learn the mechanics it gets old fast and anthem will too. Destiny has its issues for sure however in the face of over watch, fortnight, cod, warframe and other games, Destiny has retained its "vibrant" player base that remains passionate about the game. Streamers are still making clips on it and people are still watching. Forums are still pumping and people are still playing. There is no other game on the market that quite scratches that itch of smooth gun play and movement, great music and graphics and the sound of that super popping as your about to go make some plays against other guardians. Anthem wont have pvp, it's in third person, it doesn't have the same power fantasy that I can resonate with and that's because I don't have any power in anthem, my suit does. I think anthem will do well and it may draw some pve players away but I don't see the pvp players leaving. Bring on trials of osiris. Not the nine.

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            • So basically, you think Bungie, now divorced from Activision and Activision's check book, should revamp their entire game? Interesting... The symbiotic relationship between pve and pvp, is what made the Destiny universe different, when it originally launched. There are tons of players who would quit playing Destiny if they removed pvp. In fact, many of the hardcore, desperately want Trials back. They want a super sweaty pvp mode. Bungie is going to do Bungie. God knows where the path leads. Only time will tell.

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            • Anthem is a 3rd person game. It may be successful but it won’t be at the cost of Destiny’s failure. The core base of Destiny players will lose interest in the 3rd person perspective quickly. The gaming community at large may fall in love with Anthem but it won’t affect Destiny in the slightest.

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              • Edited by Pyrrhic_Apathy: 2/3/2019 1:05:28 AM
                I have a question: where are all the "don't preorder" fanatics? I mean, after watching the train wreck of a demo last week, they should have been out in full throat. I tried the free demo this weekend myself. I want to like this game. Unfortunately, even after having a week to get things in line, I've personally been kicked out of instances 3 times, hit the infinite loading screen glitch twice, had the entire game crash once, and had various glitches (can't switch weapons, infinite reload animation, enemies disappearing and reappearing somewhere else with full health, various animation stutters, cutscenes freezing and failing to play). All of this in only a few hours of play. Anyways, with all the failures with this game so far, one would think these boards would be absolutely chock full of those looking for an evidence backed opportunity to crow about the evils of pre-orders.

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                • Anthem is going to fade into mediocrity if that demo was anything to go by

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                  • Edited by Sneaky Athletic: 2/3/2019 6:36:25 AM
                    Anthem is not at all mechanically superior to Destiny. The gunplay is absolutley awful, the movement is pretty clunky and not very intuitive. Underwater movement is absolutely hilarious. The combo system is somewhat interesting, but the enemies are fairly basic and the Stronghold's do not seem to have much replayabilty. The UI is also awful and if the demo is anything to go on, the gane will be chalk-full of bugs and server errors. Secondly you're point about PvP simply does not hold water. Many people, including myself only really play Destiny for the PvP elements. The gun play is excellent, abilities and supers feel for the most part fun and balanced, but the maps could use some work though. PvP is at the core of the game and to remove it would likely destroy the franchise. I'm sorry you don't enjoy it, I don't particularly enjoy any of the PvE in this game but I'm not asking for it to be removed, because I understand that many enjoy the game exclusively for it. The PvP population is usually about 80% of the PvE population on most days so to say that it is irrelavent is ignorant. PvE games all run the content draught risk because of their nature. The developers simply cannot create content as quickly as players can consume it. It happens with Destiny and will likely happen with Anthem. The difference is that Destiny has an infinitely replayable mode in PvP whereas Anthem does not.

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                  • Your forgetting it’s a game published by ea. Can’t wait to come back to this post and see you cry when it releases 😘

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                    • Im going to anthem, i hate this game pvp, pve is awesome but in need of new stuff, and with next season being gambit bullshit, i will not play next season.

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                      • I've been playing the free demo for Anthem for a little bit and I gotta say, it is not what everyone is hyping it up to be. The combat feels unrewarding and the movement feels clunky. It just doesn't seem like the "destiny killer" everyone is thinking it's going to be. Who knows, maybe a few months from now the games is going to prosper and being amazing, but at this point I just don't see it.

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                        • Yeah......no. Never liked 3rd person shooters and anthem has no PvP. Destiny is still my go to choice for space/fantasy fps.

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                          • Nope, I’ll admit the flying feels great in Anthem, but it’ll get boring real quick, just like the rest of the game

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                          • Played the demo this morning... seems pretty fun.

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                          • It has the option of crafting which can give hours of fun if they use that feature properly we can get very engaged. That Diablo approach where you play on a harder difficulty you get more chance to get better stuff is also a system that can get us very engaged. Who knows maybe we will have paragon levels. I just hope that they stay transparent and that they handle their game in a clever way. Hopefully Bungie takes a more pro consumer approach and starts managing Destiny better because selling overpriced DLC or pass or content withouth telling what exactly is that is not a good business practice.

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                          • Destiny could definitely benefit from some of Anthems ideas, but way too much of your argument leans on the idea that Anthem is actually [i] lacking[/i] a feature Destiny has. I get that PvE and PvP sometimes conflict, but suggesting that the game would be better if a large chunk of it was pushed to the wayside simply because of your dislike for it seems rather selfish and a bit shortsighted. If you want a more PvE focused game, then by all means, switch over to Anthem, have a good time; but don't act like games should damn near [i]renove[/i] features to suit your own personal preference.

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                          • Edited by spif: 2/2/2019 9:05:47 PM
                            Both shit, just spent too much on Destiny to "jump ships".

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                          • Destin, in the middle of an Anthem stream … " I really want to go play Destiny right now" Lulz

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