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Edited by SophieFlowerGirl:
1/28/2019 10:52:40 PM
35
The problem with Luna’s, and why it needs to go!
So I’m going to start out by saying I attracted a [b]lot[/b] of unwanted attention with my last post. I’m not proud of it. I also will be taking a much more civilized approach to discussing this problem.
Obviously if you’ve read the title, you know the topic. Luna’s howl is too powerful in pvp. This is something not many want to hear. I will elaborate.
1. The gun has unrivaled kill times at short-medium ranges
2. The gun, and no matter what you believe, does [i]make a player better than they are.[/i]
3. People who don’t deserve the gun are getting recovs (#2)
4. Bungie has not introduced a weapon to rival this gun. This is the worst problem which will, if we’re lucky, be solved by the last word
I want to hear your takes on the gun. Please refrain form the [b]get betters[/b] and [i]insert baby joke hears[/i] as I heard plenty with my first post.
Alas,
Ghost
Edit: I’m going to be very busy so future replies will be hard for me to respond to! I’ll get around to them as soon as I can. Thanks for your time.
Edit-Final: unfortunately I am out of time. I’m going to become very busy soon and I no longer have time to discuss this topic so I will now offer the solutions I have come up with based on reactions of the community (what’s the point of a debate if we don’t offer a solution!)
1. Introduced more weapons that can effectively fight Luna’s, but don’t make them easy to obtain.
2. People who earn Luna’s have the right to use. Begin the bans of recovs and the purchase of carry.(I’m pretty sure this is illegal on battle net anyway!)
3. Probably the 2nd worst solution but nerf the gun. Making it harder to wield would do it.
4. Easily the worst solution. Disabling the ability to use it in certain modes or ranks. (Yeah, I don’t like it either but we should consider different opinions)
That’s all! Thank you to each and every single person that left a reply(no matter how passive aggressive). See you all here again soon!
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Edited by themirror2man: 1/29/2019 2:18:33 AMCrucible is a grotesquerie. I don't think nerfing is the answer, if anything buffs till the gun blows up the users game controller😲 Something has to be done to encourage competition in PvP that doesn't empower pinnacle weapon camping. I have suggested on other posts a Crucible Challenge that both rewards weapon diversity and discourages pinnacle camping. Like a nightfall. Paid carries, streamers, sweats yadayada yada are going to continue because Bungie hasn't stopped them and when $$ is involved, what could possibly discourage this behavior? Imo nothing but encouraging these players to compete in a different fashion that allows lesser skilled players to have "The advantage". We alllllll know we have to "get guud"😒, yes? Lay down your Lunas, you pub stomping juveniles... lol. Yea... until Bungie ups the ante on these "superstars" nothing is going to change no matter what nerfs occur. They will adapt.
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Edited the post a final time. I will be able to engage every now and then but I’m booked for now. Thanks for stopping by!
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3 RepliesLots of weapons out time to kill luna. Any high impact pulse . Suros regime. Sweet business.. The scourge scout with box breathing.
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1 ReplyI used to think this all the time, but when you boil it down and re-ask yourself these questions some will answer themselves. For example, it makes you a better player. When you think about it, they are a better player because they had to grind their way up to fabled. The reason people get destroyed by it is because the people using it are extremely good. On the subject of the unrivaled ttk, it is a pinnacle weapon for a reason, it takes work to get so it shouldn't be some average handcannon that has no real special qualities. When it comes to this gun being rivaled. This gun has the fastest ttk, that is true but thats when you come down to just shooting at a target and not bringing people using cover and the map to their advantage, that also doesnt account for perks like high impact like ace of spades, those guns can easily contest luna's. A few that can are, kindled orchid, ace of spades, and nation of beasts. Those are just handcannons. You are right about payed carries, those are unfair.
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1 ReplyEdited by TheWagn: 1/28/2019 7:37:19 PMUse a bygones at range you will win every time. I despise posts by this. Always people who don't have the gun. You think people just run around getting mag howl on every target? Not every engagement (on console at least can't speak for PC) results in quick consecutive headshots. I get maybe 3 or 4 clean mag howl kills a game. Most are cleanups or 4 taps because I get a body shot on some dude who is flying through the air or strafing. 180's kill fast. It's not just the perk. People assume when they get killed by luna it was because of mag howl. Most of the time you are probably just getting outgunned. Oh but it's never your fault. It's the guns fault. This is why people like you don't have luna. Because, well, you suck.
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4 Replies1. Its a pinnacle weapon, and it should feel like it. Its easy to use due to its high stability. 2. Depends on the opponent's latency, LH can be inconsistent with its Magnificent Howl perk. Meaning you can hit three 57 crit, when the third bullet suppose to be the killing bullet after 2 crit. 3. Lack of range = less bullet magnetism. 4. Depends on your skill level, you can easily outplay a Luna user. Just know your range and play smart to accomodate your loadout. Anything with hi-cals or explosive-rounds can stagger it. 5. The gun does not make you a better player. If youre bad, youre bad. If you cant land first 2 crits, then suck to suck. Ive gone up against LH user that cant land shots, at all. A 2.0 player with will always outgun and outplay a subpar (0.5-0.9) player that has LH/NF. If you pay for your LH/NF and you cant land shots, youre better off getting a refund or use something else. Dont embarrass yourself. Those are my points. I do have both Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten.
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11 RepliesAll I can say is, you're bad as hell. Didn't manage to farm Luna and now the only logical option for you is crying for a nerf. If you can't have Luna, why should other people get it, right? You're one of these guys, that would defend Luna and say it's fine, doesn't need a nerf, if you managed to get it. All "nerf Luna" posts are from people that suck and didn't manage to get Luna. Easy explained. I have Luna and barely use it. Ace of spades is so much better. Like you said in a reply "dust rock is ok because everyone can have one". Give everyone a Luna and your whole argument is invalid right? -blam!-n casual pricks.
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I know this has nothing to do with luna but there was a reply I saw one day about a pve version of luna. Where everytime you get a kill it increases in rampage and the stacks do not leave unless you miss a shot. I think THAT would be a great weapon for those who cannot get luna. A precision frame handcannon that stays with 3x rampage until you miss a shot. I really hope this is taken into consideration by bungie. The guy who created this idea has my attention since I love handcannons and have a difficult time winning in comp. Your thoughts? Should we get a handcannon like this? Fyi: "go play quick play" or "you just suck" is an automatic mute lol
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2 RepliesI’ve had plenty of luck outgunning Luna’s with several weapons. Bygones, trust, ace of spades, even graviton lance for crying out loud. It’s not impossible, nor is the gun gonna be given a nerf lets be real here. On the other hand, bungie may cave and actually nerf it, but hopefully not. Hopefully they can make more weapons that can counter it effectively, but it should not be nerfed. Bad players in general are gonna have problems countering anything that’s even slightly powerful, to be blunt, aka once last word comes out watch all the “NERF LAST WORD” posts come out lol
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4 RepliesIf you're not good enough to get lunas howl, you aren't being outshot by people's with lunas, you're being outshot by people who are good in PvP. The quest teaches you how to play crucible.
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5 RepliesDo you have the gun?
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1 ReplyA gun can’t make the player better. Unless that plate is really good at getting constant crit hits. If they can’t hit crits, then it’s gonna take more shots. People who have it and put in the time to get it, deserve to use it in any pvp mode and use it all the time if they want. If you haven’t got it, or simply not good enough to get it then that is no ones fault but you’re own. Why should all the people that got it legit, be penalised because other people aren’t good enough to get it?
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2 RepliesDon't worry, on your last post i mentioned that bungie plans to discuss the "hand cannon shaped elephant in the room" next week. It'll probably be getting nerfed.
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maybe i hate been killed by luna but you can counter if you know how to play with others weapons .. i dont like NF because long range like pulse rifle but luna is okay HC
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5 RepliesRange needs to be adjusted on hand cannons, that's all. Currently Lunas and Not Forgotten compete at Scout rifle range...
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6 RepliesPvP Meta - Overall (via https://destinytracker.com/) [b]Dust Rock Blues[/b] Shotgun 7.8% [b]Luna's Howl[/b] Hand Cannon 7.1% [b]Ace of Spades[/b] Hand Cannon 6.2% [b]Trust[/b] Hand Cannon 5.2% [b]Bygones[/b] Pulse Rifle 5.6%
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1 ReplyEdited by Lord_Shar: 1/28/2019 7:05:35 PMBeing a pinnacle weapon, Luna's and NF should be able to 3-tap. However, Magnificent Howl is just too good -- once activated, it will deal lethal damage on any hit. Easy Fix -- tone down Magnificent Howl so that it still needs a precision hit to score a 3-tap kill. This means that there is no reduction in TTK, but Luna/NF users must still land precision hits to reap the benefits. This makes its precision hit a standard requirement to use the weapon well, just like Redrix. Without the Magnificent Howl per present, Precision frame 180RPM hand cannons need 4 taps minimum to kill a target.
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I don't like it that much actually in PvP. I think I feel dirty for it. Moral integrity I guess. I like it's PvE implications more.
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Edited by Novastone: 1/29/2019 5:49:18 PMThe amount of trash LH players I’ve seen is insane, the gun isn’t gonna make someone who’s average god tier. These bad nerf LH/NF posts is getting ridiculous, most who do don’t have the damn gun in the first place.
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The new raid scout rivals Luna’s AND Not Forgotten. It come with box breathing, which allows it to 3 tap at 180 rpm
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2 RepliesI have both luna's and nf and yes they are very powerful but I wouldn't say they need to go. You just need to make them miss a crit and it's a regular 180 hc thus it's only really great in the hands of a skilled player who will most likely beat you with any gun.
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Edited by puppyk1sses: 1/28/2019 5:51:18 PMThey need to do what respectable games do and ban certain weaponry from certain game modes. Whether Luna/NF need to be banned from quick play or banned from comp would be up for debate, but they are making it VERY hard for the average / even slightly above average player to enjoy pvp You can’t expect a positive reaction when you give the cream if the crop players a large statistical advantage over everyone else.
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1. No shit, it's a pinnacle weapon designed to be strong in Crucible. 2. No really? That can be said about literally any weapon. 3. Yes, this is a problem, but not with the gun itself. 4. Trust, Ace of Spades and Bygones [spoiler]not included in the DLC[/spoiler]
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If you have a problem with Luna’s your gonna hate Last word and thorn making a comeback.
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Edited by RokNBrokN: 1/28/2019 5:33:33 PM[quote]1. The gun has unrivaled kill times at short-medium ranges[/quote] Correct though it does require accuracy, and some level of luck due to flinch. [Quote]2. The gun, and no matter what you believe, does [i]make a player better than they are.[/i] [/quote] Ok, give me proof. I have no problem if it does I just need to see proof. [Quote]3. People who don’t deserve the gun are getting recovs (#2)[/quote] While Bungie should moderate this more, some of it isnt their fault. [Quote]4. Bungie has not introduced a weapon to rival this gun. This is the worst problem which will, if we’re lucky, be solved by the last word[/quote] True, though there are plenty of weapons that can counter it at medium range. [spoiler]Thank you for posting reasons.[/spoiler]
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I'm not PvP expert, but what's the TTK of Luna's and how does it compare to the next close gun? I mean surely a good player will beat the vast majority with very average weapons, I think ita good to have PvP a few things to chase. But my overall thought is PvP will never be balanced and isn't designed to be, a loot driven PvE focussed shooter will never have a balanced PvP unless bungie separates the 2 modes, which they refuse to do.
