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12/31/2018 7:39:21 PM
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Panoptes and Motion Control

A few weeks ago, a friend of mine had said that he’d completely forgotten about the boss Panoptes entirely, and that even though we’d talked about the Infinite Forest quite a bit during the Festival of the Lost, the Vex Mind had somehow slipped from his memory. And I’ll be honest, I took me a moment to even remember who he was talking about. I think the reason that Panoptes was so forgettable, at least for me, was that for a Vex based expansion, Curse of Osiris wasn’t all too informative on the Vex involved, that being Panoptes. The only thing that we leaned about Panoptes itself was that they were the mind that oversaw the Infinite Forest and it’s simulations. There isn’t all too much past that, making it practically no different from just a normal strike boss. There just wasn’t much substance to it, which I understand could be hard with something like a Vex Mind. The Vex don’t have all too much individuality apart from their Directive Programing, but I feel there could’ve been more to the main boss of the expansion’s story. Maybe something like a personal thought log Panoptes kept, or points of interest on specific simulations that it flagged. But lack of content isn’t the point of this post. Since there wasn’t much written lore on Panoptes, I thought I’d be interesting to take a closer look at something in-game that I noticed of how the Vex Mind controlled the Forest’s Simulations. If you go back and play the CoO missions that featured Panoptes, you’d see that those giant spindly arms it had wasn’t just for show. Each movement it does with it’s limbs has its own action tied to it. To create a small amount of simulated enemies, it holds its hand to the ground and slowly pulls up while energy circles around the wrist of it’s moving hand. To create a large amount of simulated enemies, it’ll cross and uncross it’s arms as if its spreading the simulations out, with energy circling around both of it’s wrists. To teleport away, it will tuck its elbows in and pull back. And to delete something from the Forest, it’ll wave its arms around, bring his hands together, pull them apart creating an arch of energy between it’s fingers, and slam his hands back together. It probably had more motion controls at it’s disposal, but there are the only ones that we see in game. Lesser Vex frames, such as Hydras and certain high ranking Minotaurs, don’t really use physical movements like this, rather producing constructs and running simulations through their internal processing power, but on a much smaller scale than what’s seen in the Infinite Forest. Perhaps this physical method of control is meant to better handle the enormous size of the Forest, balancing the determination and execution of the actions Panoptes would take for it’s simulations. If certain cumbersome subroutines were delegated to the limbs, the mind’s processing power would be allowed to focus directly on handling/organizing the many strings of simulation all going on at once in the Forest, leaving the execution/enacting/navigation to the physical movements of Panoptes Frame, which could be why there were so many separate parts compared to a normal Axis Mind, each with its own separate data resources to avoid impeding on the Mind’s work. Given the nature of the Infinite Forest, these simple motions might even be programed into the Forest’s code itself. If this were the case, Panoptes wouldn’t have to actually enact a teleportation protocol or use its processing power to produce off the cuff simulated enemies, rather just doing simple movement that signals the Forest to enact it for them. Sort of like hotbaring commonly used commands. Quria, another Armed Hydra frame (assuming the Lore Anthology’s rendition of it is cannon) was said to house it’s simulations within it’s hull. Obviously since it wasn’t in the Forest, it wouldn’t be able to manifest it’s simulations like Panoptes could, and yet it still had arms, hinting that there could be another purpose than motion control. Perhaps limbs on a Hydra frame is just indicative of a Greater Vex Mind, or perhaps Quria and Panoptes had different reasons for possessing limbs. Its hard to tell, given there isn’t all too much on either Mind, leaving the nature of Hydra Limbs mainly up to speculation. Nothing too lore heavy to this, just though I’d look for a little more substance to this boss and it’s domain. Its also interesting seeing a pseudo symbiotic relationship between the Vex and their environment, rather than them trying to convert it into a Radiolarian Solid. Granted, most things in the Forest are likely Radiolaria in nature, but still, its a relation the Vex have that isn’t conversion based, and that’s cool.
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  • Good job, you put more thought into Panoptes than bungie did. Development probably was along the lines of "Wouldn't it be better if instead of just floating there the boss waved his arms and moved around during certain phases of the fight." "Good idea Bob."

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  • Im so glad that the other user Archival Mind commented about this. I remember his super informative post about his frame being the same as Qurias concept art and that he shared the same mechanics as Oryx (like the clap wipe) because of course Qurias combat frame, mission ect. Love these kind of posts <3

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  • Interesting explanation /theory crafting on what is most likely just an animators way of adding a level of telegraphing to an AI combatants attacks/moves in order to visually tell the player what is happening.

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  • I personally think after the Vex encountered Oryx, they tried to simulate him again and ended up creating Panoptes. Imo he looks like a Vex version of oryx but whatever I’m probably just weird.

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    • I think the Panoptes fight is just forgettable. You don't really fight him, you smash orbs and on a safe platform shoot him till he flinches.

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    • [quote]A few weeks ago, a friend of mine had said that he’d completely forgotten about the boss Panoptes entirely, and that even though we’d talked about the Infinite Forest quite a bit during the Festival of the Lost, the Vex Mind had somehow slipped from his memory. And I’ll be honest, I took me a moment to even remember who he was talking about. I think the reason that Panoptes was so forgettable, at least for me, was that for a Vex based expansion, Curse of Osiris wasn’t all too informative on the Vex involved, that being Panoptes. The only thing that we leaned about Panoptes itself was that they were the mind that oversaw the Infinite Forest and it’s simulations. There isn’t all too much past that, making it practically no different from just a normal strike boss. There just wasn’t much substance to it, which I understand could be hard with something like a Vex Mind. The Vex don’t have all too much individuality apart from their Directive Programing, but I feel there could’ve been more to the main boss of the expansion’s story. Maybe something like a personal thought log Panoptes kept, or points of interest on specific simulations that it flagged. But lack of content isn’t the point of this post. Since there wasn’t much written lore on Panoptes, I thought I’d be interesting to take a closer look at something in-game that I noticed of how the Vex Mind controlled the Forest’s Simulations. If you go back and play the CoO missions that featured Panoptes, you’d see that those giant spindly arms it had wasn’t just for show. Each movement it does with it’s limbs has its own action tied to it. To create a small amount of simulated enemies, it holds its hand to the ground and slowly pulls up while energy circles around the wrist of it’s moving hand. To create a large amount of simulated enemies, it’ll cross and uncross it’s arms as if its spreading the simulations out, with energy circling around both of it’s wrists. To teleport away, it will tuck its elbows in and pull back. And to delete something from the Forest, it’ll wave its arms around, bring his hands together, pull them apart creating an arch of energy between it’s fingers, and slam his hands back together. It probably had more motion controls at it’s disposal, but there are the only ones that we see in game. Lesser Vex frames, such as Hydras and certain high ranking Minotaurs, don’t really use physical movements like this, rather producing constructs and running simulations through their internal processing power, but on a much smaller scale than what’s seen in the Infinite Forest. Perhaps this physical method of control is meant to better handle the enormous size of the Forest, balancing the determination and execution of the actions Panoptes would take for it’s simulations. If certain cumbersome subroutines were delegated to the limbs, the mind’s processing power would be allowed to focus directly on handling/organizing the many strings of simulation all going on at once in the Forest, leaving the execution/enacting/navigation to the physical movements of Panoptes Frame, which could be why there were so many separate parts compared to a normal Axis Mind, each with its own separate data resources to avoid impeding on the Mind’s work. Given the nature of the Infinite Forest, these simple motions might even be programed into the Forest’s code itself. If this were the case, Panoptes wouldn’t have to actually enact a teleportation protocol or use its processing power to produce off the cuff simulated enemies, rather just doing simple movement that signals the Forest to enact it for them. Sort of like hotbaring commonly used commands. Quria, another Armed Hydra frame (assuming the Lore Anthology’s rendition of it is cannon) was said to house it’s simulations within it’s hull. Obviously since it wasn’t in the Forest, it wouldn’t be able to manifest it’s simulations like Panoptes could, and yet it still had arms, hinting that there could be another purpose than motion control. Perhaps limbs on a Hydra frame is just indicative of a Greater Vex Mind, or perhaps Quria and Panoptes had different reasons for possessing limbs. Its hard to tell, given there isn’t all too much on either Mind, leaving the nature of Hydra Limbs mainly up to speculation. Nothing too lore heavy to this, just though I’d look for a little more substance to this boss and it’s domain. Its also interesting seeing a pseudo symbiotic relationship between the Vex and their environment, rather than them trying to convert it into a Radiolarian Solid. Granted, most things in the Forest are likely Radiolaria in nature, but still, its a relation the Vex have that isn’t conversion based, and that’s cool.[/quote] Cool boss fight and when i first saw him i was lime whoa. Idk much about lore about this guy tho

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      • Hell I feel like Argos had more backstory then Panoptes lol

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      • Curse of Osiris was kind of disappointing, and the fight was a little easy, but the first team I saw Panoptes was insane. He is behind a giant wall made by Osiris and is breaking through, and you should better leave soon.

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        • Edited by IcyHorizons: 1/1/2019 1:58:36 PM
          Honestly the reason CoO was a flop because of the lack of new content. Osiris, recycled content. Vex themed content, recycled content (VOG from Destiny 1) Mercury, recycled content( although i did like the somewhat newer change in scenery, however it paled in comparison to the Infinite Forest in roaming size and this sucks because there's a lot that you could possibly do with Mercury, finding Vex strongholds for example). Brother Vance, recycled content from Destiny 1 Ikora showing up and taking interest in finding Osiris, is somewhat new but we already knew that Ikora had been Osiris's top student and would eventually become his successor as the Warlock Vanguard. And the Lighthouse which was only limited to a small area available for those who braved the Trials Of Osiris Ah finally now for content that was added for CoO. Panoptes, new boss Sagira, (by far my favorite character in all of the Destiny universe and I wish she could be our Ghost instead of Northbot). And last but not least The Infinite Forest. My point is that almost all of the "Content" from CoO was recycled and it was seen as a joke but Warmind somewhat righted the wrong that CoO had caused.

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          • Almost the entirety of the COO was pulled directly from the original D1. Many parts of the game play were even shown at e3 and in media events before D1 even shipped.

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          • I think the team was on break during CoO since it had such little content and none of the characters feel complete. bungie has had this problem making characters come to life previously but had gotten better ever since taken king..but Panoptes and CoO felt hallow like back in the D1 days. the easiest way they could have fixed that boss is to give him dialogue throughout CoO, have him reply to Osiris, and have him talk to the player character..especially when the final blow was dealt. resurrecting the entire CoO DLC would be a lot more difficult. they probably should just do us a solid and revamp it like no mans sky did..make it the quality DLC it should have been. for instance, the infinite forest should have looked more like the destiny planted instead of a little pocket test lab. should have looked more like assassins creed when going into the forest and other than that the worlds should have looked like various planets not randomly generated platforms.

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          • Something people should probably keep in mind, with the pictures from the grimoire anthology it looks like this Vex Mind shares its design with Quria.

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          • i have been wondering what type of vex is it

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            • Panotpes is an Oculus Rift.

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              • Though both looking similar to Oryx. Quria being the elder, I presume, was introduced as a counter to The Hive and their Sword Logic......and to an extent Oryx...though this didn't work out on the ladder. Panoptes hand movements have a resemblance to Oryx's too. Mainly the deletion or "wipe" mechanic. Panoptes was another waste.

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                • Theory crafting is always fun but most likely the physical actions exist to make the player feel as though Panoptes was participating and not just watching idly.

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                  • Very Many Words

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