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12/18/2018 4:34:45 AM
56
No Variety In PvP Meta
I'm just coming back into Destiny after a long break and after playing a few PVP matches I noticed I got killed countless times by Lunas Howl. I decided then I should start working to get this gun (and I am). So I went into competitive and I realized... well now all I'm getting shot by is Not Forgotten.
I decided to look on Destiny tracker to see what the top players are using to see how I can combat this and what I saw was a bit disappointing.
Almost the entirety of the top 100 Elo players are using the exact same load out.
Dust Rock Blues
Not Forgotten
Wardcliff
Why did we add random rolls to Destiny to just have it stagnated by a completely over dominate fixed roll gun. I wish there were more guns that can compete at the level of this load out.
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My issue is shotguns and how heavily they’re used. Wasn’t a big surprise that shotguns are top of meta after seeing sidearms and subs reign supreme in the first year of D2. The problem is I just don’t see it changing with the special ammo the way it is. I personally think going back to special ammo crates is the best thing for the game. Not only does it add more map control to the game, but also think you would see more people using subs and sidearms for longer uptimes with close range weapons.
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at least its not Bygones and Telesto
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EVERY ERA of Destiny has had a Meta... Going all the way back to the first month of D1.
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9 RepliesThe best players are using the best guns?!! **surprised pikachu** Also, thank god warcliff coil is completely irrelevant on PC. Are console players incapable of aiming something that can get more than 2-3 kills?
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People are too afraid to try anything new cause they'll just get destroyed by DRB, Luna's, Wardcliff. I absolutely love when a DLC drops, there's been a weapon patch and everyone is trying something. It's so much more fun, but when the meta sets, gameplay becomes very boring and stale. I don't see how people can use the same weapons constantly over and over without getting bored. I get that it's obviously good for getting kills, but its so stale. You'd think with all the weapons Bungie have added to this game that players would want to try something new.
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9 RepliesYep. Pretty sad. DRB Luna/NF Wardriff On.EVERY.SINGLE.HUNTER running BB and Shard of Gjallanor. I'm sick of it, it's like playing against the same exact person everygame...Generic_Hunter_00
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7 RepliesBut Luna’s / NF isn’t OP or anything. All these people using it are obviously using it just as a joke to disadvantage themselves, because like I said, it’s not OP or anything...
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14 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 12/18/2018 3:15:14 PM"Meta" is short for "metagame". Which is the word to describe the "unwritten rules" of a game that define its best strategies, equipment, and tactics. EVERY competitive endeavor is going to have a metagame. Because the whole point of competition is to identify and drive out inefficiency. So competitive players will ALWAYS find whatever they can that will give them any sort of advantage no matter how slight. Others will then follow suit so that they don't give away that advantage. You can NEVER scrub a game like this to the point where every weapon is exactly the same...unless (like Halo) you literally forced everyone to play with identical weapons. Any effort to do that will break this game. Bungie nearly broke vanilla Destiny 2 by trying to give every weapon in the game the same basic TTK. The ended up breaking the PVE side of the game....and all it did was make the most STABLE weapons (and therefor the easiest to use) the METAGAME..... ...and you STILL had players whining about how those weapons were "overpowered" and how "sick" they were of "dying to the same weapons over and over again". Once you give in to complaing about weapons....and worrying about what the other guy is playing? That is a bottomless pit. You'll always be complaining....and trying to resist the temptation to gear-blame for all of your problems. TLDR: The reason why that combination is the competitive meta is simple. Comp play is about maximizing lethality (short TTK) while minimizing risk (high burst damage, long range, ability to use from cover). So you have the game's best burst damage primary (hand cannon with the longest range and fastest TTK) . You have the shotgun (best burst damage special weapon) with the highest combination of impact and range. The Wardcliff Coil is a rocket launcher (again high burst damage at range) that sprays out a cloud of death that is difficult to dodge. So---as long as comp rewards passive play, and punishes death so severely----you are always going to have comp players running with a some VARIATION of that loadout as the metagame. You dont' fix that by screwing around with the sandbox. You fix that by offering a wider variety of tactical situations.
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1 ReplyThere’s always going to be a meta. That’s just how it is 🤷🏼♀️ if you nerf all three of those weapons....another three will just take their place. Players will always try to find the best weapons the play with
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I'm using a bygones right now, which is a commonly used gun, so knocking on the door of meta at the very least! I love that gun; range finder, headseeker, ricochet rounds and extended barrel - I put a back up mag on that and got a 'we ran out of medals' in rumble and I'm rubbish in pvp!! I can't fault anyone for going 100% meta because why would anyone use something that isn't as effective? (Ignoring doing bounties/quests/truimphs)
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3 Repliesthe people who designed destiny 2 crucible should be fired asap because it has such a bad pvp design. maps are badly made, forced meta so most guns are useless, overpowered/underpowered supers, exploitable abilities, having pve stats in pvp, bad matchmaking, people that play longer than you will beat you because they have something you dont have, you can use exotics in pvp, your skill is irrelevant. i honestly dont know how the crucible team can be this incompetent it boggles my mind.
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9 RepliesEdited by Hexi: 12/18/2018 5:21:44 AMDude, it has nothing to do with those weapons being good, the problem is far deeper than the weapons. It's the time to kill and one hit abilities. When TTK is less than the average human reaction time, it means that if you get shot from outside your field of visions, you die before you actually register being shot at. The current meta is about not letting the enemy react, this means shotguns and fast TTK weapons. If you let the target shoot back, you take a risk. Then we have the fact that the maps are nothing but tight corners and short corridors almost exclusively with few exceptions so short-range weapons are not optional, cutting the number of feasible weapons even lower. This leaves out 90% of the guns in the game because the game is developed by people who don't actually play it.
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Seeing a lot of comments about poor map design which yes is a problem but bigger maps wouldn't solve anything. Look at Equinox it is a large open map that does tone down the power of shotguns and HCs but greatly empowers scouts and snipers. Equinox is the opposite of most maps in D2 but with the same problem but instead of players camping with shotguns and HCs in corridors it is players camping with scout/sniper rifles at their spawn. We need a middle ground not one end of two extremes.
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4 RepliesYou have to get a good roll for dustrock, they earned that gun as they did nf. If you don't use a primary or energy exotic why not use ward cliff it's really good for securing heavy.
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The entire game of Destiny multiplayer is NOT about skill or variety . It's all about grinding for OP weapons to dominate noobs and casual gamers (driving them and future buyers away from the Destiny franchise).
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You think you must use the metas in order to win. Not so fast my friend. I have this new cheat. It is called "The Look". You just look in a top tiers direction and they die. It doesn't work on scrubs since you don't need it. Things have changed while you have been away.
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That literally is not possible. The Meta is the best tactics, strategies or weapons to use. If the best weapons to use were all of them then there would be no meta. and there will always be a meta. Also, NF is hard to get, available to a select few, Wardcliff anyone can get, and dust rock is counterable.
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I am the meta
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Try 150 rpm high impact scouts, they arent as good as nf or lunas but with the right playstyle they arent so bad. They 3 tap just like luna but fire a bit slower and dont have the best handling. So try and get the low zoom sights like hitmark (think thats what its called). Telesto and wavesplitters are very powerful (telesto is very obtainable). Strum can 2 tap using its perk its underrated. Ace of spades, malfesance are decent with the right playstyle. Trust is also a great option. Nightshade, bygons and vigilance are good pulse rifles. Dont get me wrong its not easy facing lunas but for now there are some ok counters/guns that work decently. You wont be able to 1v1 them easily atm so dont try
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Wardcliff with the catalyst is a no brainer, though it seems recently it may have gotten a little stealth nerf. Not that it matters if it's a single target.
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That is how the meta usually is. I play with what I work best with. I have to admit though, I look forward to getting Luna's and leaving it in my vault.
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Meta is just what everyone thinks is good whether it is good or not. Luna and Not forgotten may be effective, but creative load-outs can always out do some “meta” load-out that is expected. The whole Destiny community has a hard time experimenting to find new pvp load-outs. I find that once someone well known, like a streamer, shares their new creative knowledge the “meta” generally changes. Also, the “meta” is based on weapons that people find easy to use all the time due to their particular stats. I find that a sniper can be effective if the necessary skill is there. Destiny community, try and look for things you might never have thought of. Try some load-outs in quick-play, if that is too sweaty than try a private match with friends.
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There's no variety in the higher ranks. Quickplay is a different story (if you get a chill match that is), you can use a variety of different guns and not be handicapped too badly.
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ace of spades/mindbenders ambition/ grenade launcher dusk rock blues/trust bygones or nightshade/mindbenders ambition or wavesplitter or telesto you def want curated rolls for mindbenders ambition and trust. Ace of spades is the best non-precision handcannon
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A good measure of how well gun/skill/etc. balance has been achieved is whether there is a large variety of 'meta' guns/skills/etc. in the game that are competitive with each other. If any game has a 'meta' with such little diversity that you can pretty much predict what guns, skills, subclasses, etc. people are going to use, that's a serious indictment of the egregious lack of game balance, lack of balance of exotics, supers, subclasses, skills, gear, etc.
