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10/11/2018 9:56:43 PM
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Exactly. There are 0 exploits being used. Just stacking damage buffs in order to maximize damage. That's it.
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You're right, no exploits are being used. However, a cheese is different from an exploit. A cheese is doing things a way that wasn't intended by Bungie in order to make the fight easier. So yes, this is a cheese.
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Bungie never specifically stated that it was a cheese. In an interview recently conducted with a dev team member, it was stated that they didn't know whether the Riven cluster strat was a "cheese" or not. They are still discussing it and will most likely provide an answer in next week's TWAB.
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That may be so, however that doesnt change the definition of a cheese. There are 5 formats in gaming: Legit, cheese, cheat, exploit, and glitch. Cheese, is to use unintended methods to make something easier. If players use the "joining allies" to converge to one room, that would be an exploit. But that is not neccessary. If players used the "instant charge sleeper" that would be a glitch. If players could pull an ethernet cord to freeze riven in place, that would be a cheat. However, having all 6 players run to one room, and hope the 50/50 chance spawns Riven there for dps, doesn't match the other categories, and the room was never intended for all 6 players, therefore it is not legit. So that leaves cheese. Cheese isnt inherently bad, so i could care less what Bungie decides to do with it, but the classification wont change either way. An apple is still an apple even if I tell you its a lemon.
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But why is using "intended" methods considered the only way for it to be "legit?" Games are made to be beat any way possible (assuming you are using all options that are available to you in the game). Having all people run to the same room is something that would fit into the "legit" category, as well as stacking damage buffs to maximize DPS. None of which is being used in the strat is considered illegitimate, if it did not allow more than 3 people into one room, then it would not be considered legit, but what we see here is nothing but available options being used to their advantage.
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Because its built that way by design. Just because you CAN play a flute with your butthole doesnt make it ok 😂 When it comes to a raid, they are designed with one straight forward strategy in mind. That strategy, would be the legitimate one. Just like how sword flying over the bridge in Crota's raid was a cheese. Nothing wrong with it, but far from the legit way of doing it.
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Sure you can play a flute with your butthole, but that would be less efficient than playing it normally. In this case, it is in fact MORE effective using the [i]legitimate[/i] cluster bomb strategy. If you're going to be using a comparison then try using something more well-thought out.
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Edited by TheUnholyRose: 10/11/2018 11:23:07 PMThat all depends on how good someone is with their butthole doesnt it? The same comparison can be said about Riven. One team could beat it legit in 15 minutes, or a team could be trying to cheese it and take an hour. The comparison was on point, youre just getting defensive about it.
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I just think you can use a better comparison than that. The cluster strat is inherently an easier way to do the Riven fight. Sure, if you're an expert at the raid then either way you will be able to clear it easily. Comparing a good team and a normal team doesn't seem fair to me. Compare two teams of the same experience level.
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I do agree the melt is definitely easier, thats also why its a cheese.... "In a gaming scene the word cheese is used to describe strategies or ways of playing that are really powerful and do not require much skill from the players side at the same time. The term is widely used both in video games and tabletop games alike." Taken from the actual definition. Seeing the actual definition, would you not agree the shoe fits?
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Indeed, and my entire point in all of this is to say that I don't believe the cluster strat is in the fault of the players. They have every right to use it, personally, I refuse to do it but I don't blame others if they want to.
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I feel the same. I feel like doing so ruins the encounter for me personally. But it can be much faster and easier to achieve for others. It was fun discussing the topic, thanks for the chat ^_^
