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9/15/2018 5:37:25 PM
2
Toon.
It’s okay to lock loot behind exclusive content.
It’s NOT okay to lock class abilities behind them.
Loot is horizontal progression.
Class abilities are vertical progression. Vertical progression must be accessible to everyone by simply playing the basic game.
It’s was a questionable move locking access to the second attunement behind the Blind Well.
Locking access to the third behind the raid was just arrogant and stupid if there is no other means to acquire it.
This will not incentivize people to play the raid.
It will alienate them and incentivize them to quit the game.....and people will have every right to be pissed off.
You don’t do stuff like that...,,
English
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Edited by Shatterday: 9/15/2018 10:31:48 PMDo we really know for sure that the only way to obtain these subclasses, is Blind Well/Kalli? Are there plans to release these abilities via different route, albeit just at a latter time? Maybe Bungie should make that clear, one way or the other. I won't pass judgement on the matter during the 1st week of release, or until it's confirmed the only way to obtain the abilities is by doing said activities. I just don't see Bungie locking them, I can see them giving players a head start, by completing activities. similar to the Solstice event, giving players a head start on progression and 75 masterwork cores. ( wasn't a useless event afterall ) They didn't tell us masterwork cores would be an important economy source either, I'm sure people would have taken Solstice armor a bit more serious if they did. By the way, you can still complete the armor sets for cores if you still have the armor. Edit - I will also add that I love the idea of having to actually earn stuff within the game. It makes things a bit more *prestigious* and well deserved, rather than the same ol - everybody has it/that - mindset.
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I get where you are coming from but to me the fact that this is a first indicates to me that Bungie is trying to do one or both two things. They are firstly trying to get players in the raid. Fact is while many simply do not raid at all, others feel they cannot. So I think that Bungie is trying to give people a real reason to want to go into the raid, a reason that even casuals will consider. Back in D1 you could live without having a Vex, or even a Fatebringer, heck I didn't even want the Vex Mythoclast in the first place, despite it being one of the best weapons in the game for a time. Likewise one can live without a black hammer ir VoC. But a super is something even casuals want to experience so maybe Bungie is trying to get those few who don't even want the raid stuff into it. It improves the quality of life of the game and helps make repeat customers. The second thing I think they are doing is simply testing the waters to see if this will fly. You and I both know that Bungie still isn't exactly sure what they want this game to be and for whom. So every blue moon they try out stuff like thus to see how the community reacts, likely in preparation for future progression methods. This opens up the possibility for exclusive subclasses/abilities as rewards on addition to weapons and gear. A strike granted special ability, quests that grant them. It could be cool, it could be bad, and it's definitely a change but I'm open to it until I get my hands on it, as always. Will it work? That remains to be seen. Also keep in mind, this is likely just more community BS. It's not entirely warranted but I can't help but wonder if it would be any different were the situation swapped.... a few exotics being in the raid and all the supers just being very difficult to drop.
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If the raid isn't compelling enough on its own merits to "get people in," forcing them into it is simply going to alienate players. kellygreen2 put it as well as I can: Locking a basic feature — a feature that is not loot — behind a complicated, team-required, endgame activity is a fundamentally bad design decision. A few people will like it, but in the long run, if they don't alter this in some way, it is going to leave a bad mark on a franchise that already has enough of them.
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Fair enough... I can see where you guys are coming from. I'm envisioning Bungie changing the game a bit to make abilities or subclasses a part of loot, but maybe that's not the right decision for the game as it is now? I'll watch closely to see how this pans out, and hopefully an alternative is introduced eventually either way
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Bungie is trying to solve their problems by [i]creating [/i] problems for their customers. Bad business. Really bad.
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When you think about it though, is that really any different from what they've been doing from the getgo? The entire games progression system revolves around creating problems for the player that they solve by doing more content... or the same content multiple times. Their main issue has been making sure the "solution"(gear, weapons and light level) was at once worth the time and energy put into the problem AND a fun solution to reach. I get where you are coming from in terms of this being a potential turn off, and it is undoubtedly a gamble on Bungies part. And you would not be incorrect to say that their track record on gambles have been very weak. But to be honest the potential prospects of this development excite me far more than they worry me....
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[quote]When you think about it though, is that really any different from what they've been doing from the getgo? The entire games progression system revolves around creating problems for the player that they solve by doing more content... or the same content multiple times. Their main issue has been making sure the "solution"(gear, weapons and light level) was at once worth the time and energy put into the problem AND a fun solution to reach. I get where you are coming from in terms of this being a potential turn off, and it is undoubtedly a gamble on Bungies part. And you would not be incorrect to say that their track record on gambles have been very weak. But to be honest the potential prospects of this development excite me far more than they worry me....[/quote] How the hell does this excite you? Have you looked at the behavior that locking Exotics behind PVP quest steps has created? If anything this is a detriment to Raids. Now players will be paying for a carry or will bail from the raid as soon as they get the drop. As this becomes more widespread it'll be yet another obstacle & point of stress for raiders. Soon the mindset will be: "I hope no one leaves after 1st Boss." So folks will spend hours LFG only to have to repeat the pro ess when folks get their seed & leave. A lot of raiders keep claiming it's because folks fear a challenge. Wrong. Folks dislike the toxicity, elitism, and the backlash from the Raid group from a wipe. If anything...forcing people who do not want to raid into a raid will only make people play the game less or make their opinion of raids even worse. This will not help Raids in the long run. Raids just joined the "I'll avoid them at all cost" list like PVP has for folks who dislike being forced into PVP.
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That is a "gamer problem" not a "game problem" tho!
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Finally someone say's it. It's like talking to people that are too stupid to understand the difference between fear and respect. Just because I'll be forced to to the raid doesn't mean i like it, that i'm enjoying it, that i respect the content in any way and most of all, that I'll stick around doing something i HATE, after i accomplish my sole goal, a -blam!-ing seed. I get my 3rd subclass and i'll leave and never touch the mode again...ever. And 70% of the player base will do the same thing.
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Ok well first off, the attitude for exotics being behind pvp quest is what changed. Those have been a part of destiny since day 1, it's that many players started to settle into their preferred style of play and still think they are entitled to all rewards. That aspect never changed, the people did. You're second point is actually probably the best refute to what I'm saying yet, because I can totally see thst happening. It probably will, in fact. However, should Bungie cater to the toxic players by keeping raids as some kind of exclusively hardcore activity? I don't think they should be stuck keeping raid progression the same because of jerks who play this game. Bungie didn't create those people, they are simply like thst snd it is probably evident in their day to day lives. What I mean by exciting is that this could mean a potential progression overhaul... where doing certain activities grant more than just weapons and gear, but now special abilities. ... abilities that go beyond the normal skill trees. It's speculation but there's little other reason Bungie would do this
