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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by LoxusVT: 7/21/2018 4:39:08 PM
34

REMOVE THE REVIVE TOKEN SYSTEM!!!!

The raid revive token system is bad, point, blank, period. I dont want easy raids so before you jump on your keyboard and flame me hear me out. Im a D1 vet, i player every raid on both hard and normal. I have no problems with a hard raid. My problem with raids in D2 is unlike D1 raids the raids in D2 are unfun and so mechanical that it prevents players from accomplishing things if even one of their raiders isnt as good as the rest. In D1 on atheon if someone on plates died it didnt mean a full team wipe, yes it ment alot more work for the 2 left outside but it didnt mean you had to start from the begining. In something like D2 for the vex raid lair if even one person isnt on top of the skulls the whole team wipes. The raids being so mechanically heavy on top of the fact that you can only revive a person 1 time until someone else has to do it makes raids unfun. Again theres nothing wrong with a mechanically heavy raid as long as there arent systems that further hinder someone from completeing it. The other downside to the raids and raid lairs is the completion rate. If a raid is hard that already makes players who arent the most skill not want to play it. But when you add to that the fact that no one can help them makes it worse and further makes thw lfg system more "requirment" heavy. Theres nothing wrong with wanting someone who knows how to do the raid but the bigger problem is the learning curve. People on lfg recognize that the raids are so difficult that that carrying someone is almost impossible and therefore trying to teach someone at the same time also makes things just as hard. All of these problems would be done with if we went back to the D1 raid revive system. Bungie said that they want more people playing raids well puting in the token revive system does the opposite. Im not asking for easy raids, im not asking for less toxic lfg im just asking to be able to play the raid with a friend who might be a potato is that to much to ask? Share your terrible raid experiences so bungie knows how bad raid token system is. Edit 1: people seem to forget that hard modes in D1 were actually way harder than any prestige mode in D2. If your teammate died in D1 in hard mode they were dead for the whole encounter but it didnt force wipe you. You still had the ability to clutch and show some skill. The argument that you just have to "get good" for a mode that bungie made easier so people dont have to "get good" is stupid. And if you disagree then explain to me how a player not being able to revive for a whole encounter is some how a less skillful mechanic then a rev or force wipe mechanic? Not saying prestige should be easy just dont like the idea of force wiping a whole team for one players mistake.

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  • completely disagree, i have never had a problem with the token system and it should stay

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  • First off, both the raid lairs are easy. Second off, the token system better enforces the idea that the raid is a [i]team[/i] activity. Everybody has to pull their weight. With the old D1 system, it didn't matter if your carry died because you could just five man the encounter without them. Now they actually have to contribute and [i]learn[/i] instead of just being pulled through like a dead weight.

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    • I agree. The revive token system is complete horse crap that no one with half a brain likes (before you speak shit, know that I have done pretty much all Prestige/hard raids in D1 & D2 bar the newly-released SoS which I plan to do soon). Technically no one can 2-man or 1-man clutch Prestige raids unless the boss is already almost dead due to the stupid token system which gives basically 3 revives per encounter. I still have fond memories from Destiny 1 like in hard mode king’s fall raid where only 2 of us were left alive to challenge oryx while the rest of the team died from bombs/adds. as they were shooting his white-glowing stomach with everything they had , all hope seemed lost so we braced ourselves for our eventual demise. Then, he suddenly started cracking & the 2 instantly became champions in front of the rest as we celebrated the unlikely & concluding triumph. Yes, they had become legend. Unfortunately, due to the ‘participation trophies’/handholding mentality in destiny 2, no one can become a legend anymore. It is false advertisement whenever they pretend you can be.

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    • As a Raider from d1 and someone who still continues to raid in d2 I don't have a problem with the token system. In normal mode it makes it harder than d1 normal raids and hard mode was never hard. If someone died most of the people I knew were so good we literally didn't care unless we dropped below the necessary ammount before the final phase. In d2 you could be a God at the game who can solo run all raids for breakfast before curb stomping in trials and ending the day with Max difficulty Prestige nightfall solo with new controls and I'd like to see you carry someone through its without explaining anything to them. The fact is that the system is forgiving by creation but was also made so that everyone must be skilled enough still. So yes, you do have to get good because the system is forgiving to an extent.

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    • You could just not die, right?

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      • Edited by King Neptune: 7/22/2018 5:13:25 AM
        Or at least remove the timer. If someone dies you shouldn't be rushed to res them or everyone wipes. I find it stupid, but can be usable if changed properly.

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      • Less carries is a good thing. I have guided people through raids, I have carried 2 people at a time through the d2 raids. The first part of that sentence is a good thing. I now realize the second part actually made part of the problem. It is because hardcore raiders carry people that they feel entitled and offer uneducated opinions that were obviously used to shape the game. The fact that people have to be able to do their job forces them to choose between becoming educated or not doing the raid. There are very few raid encounters in d2 that require a high skill level as compared to an understanding of the encounter and what role to play.

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      • Remove it for normal. Hard mode never had revives so this still gives you more of a chancd

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        • It would be better if the tokens were for the entire team. Give a team 5 tokens that ANYONE can use.

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          • I think the tokens and esp. the 30 sec kill timer are to much. You may have a kill timer, but then no tokens or two tokens and no skill timer. The whole token system dosen't conform to thenlore anyway, because we raise a guardian with our own light. No tokens involved. This system breaks the immersion.

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              I hate the token system in the raid.. Its just lame, and removes the chance for those clutch moments. It shouldnt be in normal at all, and they should just go back to how the revives were in D1.. no revives during hard more encounters.. The token system is an overall punishment for the team when one person does something stupid. Its a stupid way to force team wipes just for one persons mistake.

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            • The “mechanics” of d1 were much less involved than any of the d2 raids. There are few parts of the raid that can be done with less than six players. The guantlet, baths, phase 1 Argos, and basically all of SOS require basically every person to be alive. The classic d1 hard mode raid revive system would not work with what we have here in d2. What we have now works about as well as it possibly could. I’d disagree saying that d2 raids are somehow easier than d1 by comparison. Especially because, as you stated above, there is no way to hard carry a deficit through the raid or raid liar. Every person in the group has to know what’s going on and has to coordinate and communicate with their teammates. If Bungie was looking for a way to make the raids more team based - they certainly did it, and it’s hard to disagree and say that making the raids team based is a bad thing.

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            • Just get rid of the 30 second timer.

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            • Token system is terribad. It doesnt allow for game issues causing failures in anyway. If there was a way to earn back a token, that would work better.

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            • Edited by DeadBySoloQ2146: 7/20/2018 10:31:56 PM
              The way they have the revive system is the sole reason less players raid now because there is no room for a simple mistake anymore and you just get pure abuse if you make one simple mistake and inturn that puts that person off raiding and most raiders make atleast 1 mistake so just think how much people could have or thinking of giving up on d2 raiding

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              • I have a feeling that this is happening already.

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                • To bring D2 raids more in line with D1 raids - the normal raid tokens should be unlimited. Prestige raid tokens should work as they currently do in D2 normal raids - revive someone and use up your one and only token (until the next section of the raid). The way they work currently in prestige raids is the person being revived loses their token as well as the person who did the reviving. Essentially NOBODY CAN DIE in prestige raids or you wipe.

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                  • I agree the tokens make the raids less fun. Just let us revive eachother an infinite amount of times. Difficulty and fun is hard to balance but fun is the most important one. I miss VoG it was way simpler and it didn't matter if someone died. Eow has a perfect difficulty balance in my opinion. Simple mechanics, simple communication but bad rewards which is a shame.

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                    • Yeah the token system should be for prestige only. Doesn't make sense to limit revives on basic raiding. It's not like it's encouraging people to play. The token system is a toxic idea. The elites are use to the mechanics and will say it isn't but to a standard player it's outright stupidity. I have friends who have tried but never completed raids because they die frequently and get removed. The system needs a change. They could make a easy mode so people can learn the mechanics and get through the raid with gear dropping only at 300.

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                    • I honestly would Raid every week if they removed the Revive Tokens.

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                    • The token system felt off from the beginning and was a major turn off for me personally. They seemed overly punishing and a symptom of the D2 design philosophy to remove the power fantasy from the game. I remember Bungie making the argument that they didn’t want situations where people die in the raid and then just sit there but the tokens just caused more strife. Instead of coming down to clutch moments the entire situation shifts to panic reviving as not to wipe; it breaks the immersion. It promotes an elitism that Bungie can’t seem to get a handle on; if one can’t perform perfectly it punishes the rest of the fireteam thus making higher and higher skill levels the new “must have ghorn.” I’m not a fan of the Leviathan raids. So not playing them doesn’t bother me but I am concerned with the Raid in Forsaken. The raid seems to be being hyped as the true end of the DLC which sounds great but if the token mechanism continues I’m not even going to bother.

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                      • I would like to see raids return to d1 style in general. Normal raids having infinite revives and hard raids have no revive for an encounter and along with that don’t add new mechanics to hard raids that are not in the normal, but hard raids should be made first like kings fall and the normal is stripped back version of hard. Calus prestige fight is dumb with the psion slapper getting pulled in and random void guy pulled out. Normal calus does not prepare you for that mechanic unlike the rest of the raid where prestige encounters build on the normal version where as calus prestige mechanic was a rushed add on in my opinion.

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                      • I feel like they should get rid of the tokens, but I'd be okay with them dropping them in normal raids, but keeping them in hard mode. That way it's similar to D1, in that normal mode has unlimited revives, but in hard mode, instead of one life, you get a few chances at redemption via tokens. You still have to know what you're doing, but it's a little more lenient, so you aren't going to wipe due to one death.

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                      • I'm fine with the token system

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                      • Token system is fine..just stay alive

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                        • Edited by VerySpookySoup: 7/21/2018 5:07:26 AM
                          Why are you dying and loses all tokens in the raid? Also, we could go back to the D1 system where there's no revives PERIOD. I mean, would you like that? Also, you're complaining that the raids are too hard. You and your team are just bad. D2 is a stupidly easy game. Gid gud.

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