and if you dont raid, you dont progress unless randomly hawthorne and/or cayde give at least one of your characters something you can infuse rather than dismantle. so more often than not you do the clan and flahspoints and then you dont want to log back in because they nerfed exotic engram levels. before warmind i played most days i could for a few hours because i had a hope to progress something, even if it was only by one. now one of my 3, hopefully my main the hunter, gets soemthing high enough that other engrams drop at one or two higher, until i can infuse all my hunter gear and stick some in vault for the others. this week i got my hunter to 251 and stalled. my others ate 348 and stalled. im at 'not wanting to log in because stalled, and grinding for no reason, with no hope.' so im here on the forums more than i was playing. is this by design bungie? i get a feeling maybe you were trying to encourage if not force pve players to do the raid. the toxic player wall makes that a no-no, and the option you dont seem to have considered is, pve players play less. and less. and then some dont bother logging in at all and maybe find something in coming months which replaces destiny and they dont come back. if anyone needs me, im in my asp explorer, about 7800 ly away from Sag A* at the galactic centre and then i will sightseeing, and turn round and fly the 24000 ly back to the inhabited bubble of human space.